READ- Weapon Rebalancing

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Originally Posted by Donald

Same could be said of the higher clip for reload freeze.
But Vector has enormous spread compared to Ion Carbine which has 0 spread making it a far spammier gun & the bullets harder to dodge.

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Going to quickly ignore everything else you said and focus on this one line. You are partially true, however, this statement is mostly wrong. Yeah, a single bullet from a gun with no spread is easier to dodge as compared to one with a lot of spread, however, the spam of guns with a fair amount of spread will be inconsistent and will make a bunch of wholes through which a player can dodge, in the other hand, a gun with no spread can create a literal stream of bullets than can trap a player in a corner making it totally impossible to dodge. This mostly applies to spar where you have a limited amount of space to flow through. Thus you'll more often hear people complaint about people that spar with ion carbine than people that spar with a vector.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

Going to quickly ignore everything else you said and focus on this one line. You are partially true, however, this statement is mostly wrong. Yeah, a single bullet from a gun with no spread is easier to dodge as compared to one with a lot of spread, however, the spam of guns with a fair amount of spread will be inconsistent and will make a bunch of wholes through which a player can dodge, in the other hand, a gun with no spread can create a literal stream of bullets than can trap a player in a corner making it totally impossible to dodge. This mostly applies to spar where you have a limited amount of space to flow through. Thus you'll more often hear people complaint about people that spar with ion carbine than people that spar with a vector.

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I don't really hear more people complain about sparring against Ion Carbine than Vector.

I've used both guns & in terms of firerate & freeze they're very very similar.

The main difference is the spread.

Vector although only 4 bullets more than Ion Carbine is less vulnerable on the reload because of its spread people will be wary of getting too close to you.

Ion Carbine cannot do that which is why I feel no spread combined with low clip & average reload is too much of a weakness for a gun thats supposed to be better than Vector.

You mentioned the undodgable stream of bullets from Carbine & in my experience thats mostly applicable if your enemy is really really weak.

The holes in Vector bullets aren't easy to dodge in my experience because of the high firerate.

I'm assuming you have both guns as well, which do you currently prefer?

I'm not asking for much, I'm just asking for Carbine to be given an average clip so that in the future Ion Carbine vs Vector is determined mostly by skill rather than repeatedly exploiting Ion Carbine's clip.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donald

I don't really hear more people complain about sparring against Ion Carbine than Vector.

I've used both guns & in terms of firerate & freeze they're very very similar.

The main difference is the spread.

Vector although only 4 bullets more than Ion Carbine is less vulnerable on the reload because of its spread people will be wary of getting too close to you.

Ion Carbine cannot do that which is why I feel no spread combined with low clip & average reload is too much of a weakness for a gun thats supposed to be better than Vector.

You mentioned the undodgable stream of bullets from Carbine & in my experience thats mostly applicable if your enemy is really really weak.

The holes in Vector bullets aren't easy to dodge in my experience because of the high firerate.

I'm assuming you have both guns as well, which do you currently prefer?

I'm not asking for much, I'm just asking for Carbine to be given an average clip so that in the future Ion Carbine vs Vector is determined mostly by skill rather than repeatedly exploiting Ion Carbine's clip.

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"Vector's fast firerate?"? Vector is a very, and I mean to enphazise this, Very slow weapon lately. Before the nerf I could've had agreed with you, but ever since, the vector is pretty much useless, occupying a very alike place in my heart as the hk16 and handgun do, as a display of skill given how bad both items are for sparring.
And yes I have used both items quiet a while. I would still prefer ion, but wouldn't change it for vector given how much it took me to obtain it. About 3 months BTW.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

"Vector's fast firerate?"? Vector is a very, and I mean to enphazise this, Very slow weapon lately. Before the nerf I could've had agreed with you, but ever since, the vector is pretty much useless, occupying a very alike place in my heart as the hk16 and handgun do, as a display of skill given how bad both items are for sparring.
And yes I have used both items quiet a while. I would still prefer ion, but wouldn't change it for vector given how much it took me to obtain it. About 3 months BTW.

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Name - Vector
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.45
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Vector is not Very slow.

Its the same ROF as M4.

Name - M4
Freeze - 0.1945
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.1
Clip - 16
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

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The only 8 dmg weapons faster than Vector is Mp5A5, M4A3, MtarX, PDWSD, Default Rifle, MetalStorm, Ion Pistols, P2ks & Ion Carbine.

That makes Vector on the same level or faster than 90-90% of the single fire 8 dmg bullets guns.

Plus the difference is 0.01, I don't know how you can possibly say that that makes Ion Carbine fast & Vector Very slow.

I have it as well & I can confirm well that their ROF is so close that the difference is almost insignificant.

I've already said no spread & low clip with a average reload speed makes Carbine extremely vulnerable to rushes from higher clip & higher spread guns like Bar.

A higher clip or faster reload speed for Ion Carbine will prevent such rushes & spam & will focus the battle more on tactics & movement rather than cheap tactics.

Plus Bitzsam said he will be making sure the gun hierarchy will remain unchanged in the Original Weapon Rebalancing thread.

I've spared daily for the past 3 years, & I can tell you undoubtedly Ion Carbine was better than Vector before the nerf.

Thats something even Bitzsam will tell you.

Its always been

1. M4A3
2. Ion Carbine
3. Gm4
4. Vector

The same couldn't be said right now & thats something Bitzsam has to reexamine.

Were dual rafficas nerfed ??

I would like to point out that no one is reading the essays you're writing...

Name - Ion Carbine
Freeze - 0.14
Firerate - 0.25
Spread - 0.01
Clip - 20
Reload - 0.2
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Name - Vector
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.29
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

These are the pre-nerf stats of Ion Carbine & Vector.

Before Ion Carbine had a 0.04 faster firerate than Vector , & a bigger clip by 6 with a 0.1 faster reload time & it was auto.




Name - Ion Carbine
Freeze - 0.14
Firerate - 0.29
Spread - 0.01
Clip - 10
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N


Name - Vector
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.45
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

These are the current Ion Carbine & Vector stats.
Currently Ion Carbine is worst or on the same level as Vector.

A 0.01 less freeze & a 0.01 faster firerate is not enough to say Ion Carbine is better than Vector.

Its true Ion Carbine with no spread is able to create a stream of undodgable bullets but that is only possible IF you can create the opening.

No spread guns are at a disadvantage when creating opening.

Ion Carbine having a higher firerate before was justified because it had to make riskier moves compared to Vector which can stay safe and rely on its spread.

Its advantage was in its rush.

Now the lack of better choice is not compensated by higher firerate.


Ion Carbine is at a disadvantage in terms of rushing & creating opening.

No spread weapons really do have to spar riskier.

Its too one dimensional with no clear sign on what its really good at.

firerate & freeze wise they're too close to say Ion Carbine is a clear winner.

Clip wise its a joke.

Its as Junz said this drops the Ion Carbine tier significantly, which should not be the case, you promised in your initial thread that you would be making sure the gun hierarchy remains unchanged, you should stick true to your words.

I don't know why you are making such a fuss over the ion carbine v vector.

1. The ion carbines original stats were based off of the GM4- the Vector is intended to also be at a similar level as the GM4. If they are the same then there is nothing wrong with that.
2. Your view on the Ion being worse is completely subjective. The Ion carbines stats are more comparable to the m4a3 in it's firerate, freeze and spread. It is beat out by the slightly larger clip and slightly faster reload. It is fairly accepted that the m4a3 definitely is NOT worse than the vector, therefore how can the ion carbine be worse than it. If anything it sits in between the vector/ gm4 and the m4a3 in terms of its hierarchy.
3. Even if I decided to completely change the ion carbine, that would not influence what I said. The ion is an ec gun, you did not pay for it. The main reason I was upholding the weapon hierarchy was because the majority of those guns cost gralats, that players paid for with money. Ec items take time to earn in most cases yes, but they do not hold the same monetary value as shop guns and are therefore subject to more extensive rebalances/ nerfs, as you saw with the significant changes made towards the chem gun.

You get more than enough value from the Ion Carbine compared to most ec items. You get an extremely good weapon, with a 9 damage melee and additional attachment. Of which you left out in your comparison, as the ion carbine attachment can be utilised to get a very easy final hit on someone on 9 hp or below. Something the vector can't do.

Yeah bitzsam how about you explain why you thought it was a good idea to nerf raffica instead of kmp9. (They cost about 300-500k btw, letting you know since we KNOW you dont actually buy auction guns)

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And yes im going to keep harassing you in game because youre a s.o.b who should have just kept to your graphics, now youre the most hated admin in the history of iera and all you can do is try and block out all the haters with whatever social mechanisms you practice regularly. In my eyes youre just some random who showed up to do a job that shouldnt be held down by one person in the first place.

And for the record, m4 is op

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Austin

Yeah bitzsam how about you explain why you thought it was a good idea to nerf raffica instead of kmp9. (They cost about 300-500k btw, letting you know since we KNOW you dont actually buy auction guns)

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And yes im going to keep harassing you in game because youre a s.o.b who should have just kept to your graphics, now youre the most hated admin in the history of iera and all you can do is try and block out all the haters with whatever social mechanisms you practice regularly. In my eyes youre just some random who showed up to do a job that shouldnt be held down by one person in the first place.

And for the record, m4 is op you dotard.

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i think i lost my gpa reading this. Im not even gonna try this one,,,,Passing it on!