READ- Weapon Rebalancing

The G18 Akimbos need a rof buff, they are way slower than they should be in comparison to other guns. When looking at the previous stats of the guns, most rof's were dropped around the same amount, these got hit way harder than them and theyre barely faster than guns they used to outspeed decently

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In comparison to p2ks rof, they have a slower rof when originally it was faster. The akimbos were at .195, the p2ks at .2, which doesnt seem like much to people who hasnt done gun admin work, but dropping the stats from the .20 range to .19 has a pretty big effect on the rof because of the odd way the scripts work. The p2ks were dropped to .255 and the akimbos to .26, but the issue is that since theyre both in the same .2- range it wont really do anything. What I think you should do is play around with its rof until its set at the ratio it should be, id guess it should be around .20, but like i said, play around with it because they are slower than they should be and that needs to be fixed

Looking at the gun stat system as a whole after the rebalances has revealed a lot of inconsistencies that will need to be looked at. An on going issue was that the auto mode on a gun was firing the gun at around 0.1-0.15 slower than tap firing (for weapons above 0.2 firerate), this is to do with the FPS of graal being capped at 20 and the tick rate of the server effectivelly putting a cap on your auto speed.

Now this has been temporarily removed, meaning that holding auto should now be the same speed as what it used to be for people who were good at tap firing, which is why it may feel like your guns are faster, when guns haven't been buffed. The issue is, this has now removed a bit of a skillgap. It is a fixed inconsistancy which is a good thing, but it also means that as a whole, firerates on weapons have gone up, as the general era population didn't really seem that capable of consistantly tap firing.

Bit on the fence about this, on one hand I liked that skill gap that the tap firing gave over players who just wanted to hold fire to win, on the other hand, it wasn't an accurate representation of the guns stats. For now i'm just going to see what it's like for a few days with the auto firerates being fixed, but it also means a lot of guns seem to be performing differently which could be a problem.

Don't be suprised if this is reverted in a few days until I can think of something else. New weapon variables for all guns is being considered to add more variety so keep that in mind.

Just to reiterate, no, none the guns have been 'buffed'

(That being said, this change just points out to all those people complaining about the gun rebalances 'my bar is so slow now'- no, it actually wasn't, if you had taken the time to get better at tap firing, the bar in its current auto state is what it would have been like for you, and what the people who weren't complaining have been beating you with)

Personally I prefer nerfed guns. Look at the speed of ak47, my eyes got hurt. And look at spectre, another cancer detected.
The gap between the bullets are small now. I literally can't see any gap to cross over bar now when it spamming. I want my dodging game back. And so does other gun.

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Originally Posted by Trix

Personally I prefer nerfed guns. Look at the speed of ak47, my eyes got hurt. And look at spectre, another cancer detected.

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Those two are the outliers since they have weird firerates, especially the assault rifle which was temporarily a burst fire chem gun with spread until I removed auto from it. For the most part guns should be accurate.

Temporarily removed auto from them.

(If your gun used to be auto and now it is semi, that is just a temporary change for the duration of this test, i'll add auto back once it's over but the reason for that is because they were probably over performing because of it, such as the ak47/ assault rifle)

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Those two are the outliers since they have weird firerates, especially the assault rifle which was temporarily a burst fire chem gun with spread until I removed auto from it. For the most part guns should be accurate.

Temporarily removed auto from them.

(If your gun used to be auto and now it is semi, that is just a temporary change for the duration of this test, i'll add auto back once it's over but the reason for that is because they were probably over performing because of it, such as the ak47/ assault rifle)

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I like how it is now.

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Well Skorpian EVO is a fast gun IRL but this super high freeze while firing it auto makes no sense so it's original stats r better.

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Originally Posted by JimmY1809

Well Skorpian EVO is a fast gun IRL but this super high freeze while firing it auto makes no sense so it's original stats r better.

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Tap fire instead of holding down fire


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Bisam are you sure you’ve only changed raffica’s firerate ? I can tell its freeze is higher now

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Those two are the outliers since they have weird firerates, especially the assault rifle which was temporarily a burst fire chem gun with spread until I removed auto from it. For the most part guns should be accurate.

Temporarily removed auto from them.

(If your gun used to be auto and now it is semi, that is just a temporary change for the duration of this test, i'll add auto back once it's over but the reason for that is because they were probably over performing because of it, such as the ak47/ assault rifle)

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Gm4 auto mode freeze is now higher....


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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Those two are the outliers since they have weird firerates, especially the assault rifle which was temporarily a burst fire chem gun with spread until I removed auto from it. For the most part guns should be accurate.

Temporarily removed auto from them.

(If your gun used to be auto and now it is semi, that is just a temporary change for the duration of this test, i'll add auto back once it's over but the reason for that is because they were probably over performing because of it, such as the ak47/ assault rifle)

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Well knew youd catch on sooner or later, it was fun while it lasted RIP assualt

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Originally Posted by Beo

Gm4 auto mode freeze is now higher....


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It’s been like this for awhile

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Originally Posted by imaginary

It’s been like this for awhile

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Not really just after the auto thing was removed the gm4 auto have changed u cant move down or right while shooting and it’s more freezy than before


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Rip why the auto is removed zzzz bring it back ☹️


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Nooo. I agree; I like the skill gap that tap firing gave and would rather prefer you leave it that way. Teach these kiddos to tap fire instead of holding fire.

Slight buff for the GM4, slightly increased spread from 0.065 to 0.08, increased damage from 8 to 8.5 and reduced its outside hittimer from 0.5 to 0.3. Meaning if you're using semi none of your shots should be impacted by the hittimer

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Slight buff for the GM4, slightly increased spread from 0.065 to 0.08, increased damage from 8 to 8.5 and reduced its outside hittimer from 0.5 to 0.3. Meaning if you're using semi none of your shots should be impacted by the hittimer

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I'm curious about what the 0.5 dmg buff will do since it doesn't shoot 2 bullets+, how does it affect the dmg of gm4?

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Originally Posted by Abare Killer

I'm curious about what the 0.5 dmg buff will do since it doesn't shoot 2 bullets+, how does it affect the dmg of gm4?

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In 1v1 it won't change it, but in basing situations it might mean a 5 shot kill instead of 6, if the person you're shooting is damaged, which is more likely to happen currently due to the food eating delay which would make 9.5 damage pretty effective

Whats the pdw hittimer tho? I wonder


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Can there be a slight buff to the auto mode on the gm4 so that is actually usable whilst basing, pking and sparing???

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The akimbos feel perfect like this

Lmao he made bar slow again


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Originally Posted by JustJoshuaVega

Lmao he made bar slow again


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Had bad?

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Originally Posted by Grantman20

Had bad?

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?


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Fire rates only slow if you’re holding fire just tap fire and you’re good.

Messing around with auto is great and all but you still haven't really addressed Marg's question about the rafficas.

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

I don't know why you are making such a fuss over the ion carbine v vector.

1. The ion carbines original stats were based off of the GM4- the Vector is intended to also be at a similar level as the GM4. If they are the same then there is nothing wrong with that.
2. Your view on the Ion being worse is completely subjective. The Ion carbines stats are more comparable to the m4a3 in it's firerate, freeze and spread. It is beat out by the slightly larger clip and slightly faster reload. It is fairly accepted that the m4a3 definitely is NOT worse than the vector, therefore how can the ion carbine be worse than it. If anything it sits in between the vector/ gm4 and the m4a3 in terms of its hierarchy.
3. Even if I decided to completely change the ion carbine, that would not influence what I said. The ion is an ec gun, you did not pay for it. The main reason I was upholding the weapon hierarchy was because the majority of those guns cost gralats, that players paid for with money. Ec items take time to earn in most cases yes, but they do not hold the same monetary value as shop guns and are therefore subject to more extensive rebalances/ nerfs, as you saw with the significant changes made towards the chem gun.

You get more than enough value from the Ion Carbine compared to most ec items. You get an extremely good weapon, with a 9 damage melee and additional attachment. Of which you left out in your comparison, as the ion carbine attachment can be utilised to get a very easy final hit on someone on 9 hp or below. Something the vector can't do.

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I don't know why you have to keep making a fuss over Ion Carbine being an EC gun.

EC gun or not it was clearly better than GM4 in every department.

You didn't set the previous stats so your opinion on that is entirely subjective.

Even if they're meant to be similar level theres a clear hierarchy of the guns.

Vector by its original pre nerf level was not supposed to be on the same level as GM4.

Vector by its original ROF stats was slower than both GM4, RAFOR, FOG & BAG.

Right now its on the same level as GM4 & 0.02 faster than BAG & a lot of the auction guns.

I don't understand why you couldn't have just kept the ratio of everything the same but you had smart@ss & mix up all the ratiios.

This clearly messes up the hierarchy of both EC, $ & auction guns.

You change all these things & then don't even test it out, you're just assuming everything is the same.

How do you maintain gun hierarchy like that?

Even if M4A3 is similar to Ion Carbine raising the clip right now to 16 would only make it so that when 1v1 the contest would be decided on who can dodge better not whos clip can last longer.

The ROF of a lot of guns right now is on a very similar level so a 0.01 faster firerate of Ion Carbine doesn't mean it can significantly outspam guns.

Plus you underestimate the difference 0.03 more spread makes.

Thats like between GM4 & Vector, 0.06 vs 0.09 spread respectively.

They're both used very very differently.

Ion Carbine having a clip size of 16 would still make M4A3 a better choice, because its faster ROF & less freeze, plus its a status gun like how people who already have GM4 still goes for Vector.

Having an average reload time already gives plenty of room to dodge & capitalise of its lack of spread.

You can use M4 or BAR which are both highly effective.

The reason I left out the secondary mode is because, in spar its the primary mode which is used the most often, switching to secondary in spar against top level guns leaves you very very vulnerable, because of its high freeze & small clip, so its better to keep the discussion on the main stats of the gun.

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Originally Posted by JustJoshuaVega

?


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I was tired af when i wrote that i meant to say "How bad did he nerf bar again"

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Originally Posted by Donald

I don't know why you have to keep making a fuss over Ion Carbine being an EC gun.

EC gun or not it was clearly better than GM4 in every department.

You didn't set the previous stats so your opinion on that is entirely subjective.

Even if they're meant to be similar level theres a clear hierarchy of the guns.

Vector by its original pre nerf level was not supposed to be on the same level as GM4.

Vector by its original ROF stats was slower than both GM4, RAFOR, FOG & BAG.

Right now its on the same level as GM4 & 0.02 faster than BAG & a lot of the auction guns.

I don't understand why you couldn't have just kept the ratio of everything the same but you had smart@ss & mix up all the ratiios.

This clearly messes up the hierarchy of both EC, $ & auction guns.

You change all these things & then don't even test it out, you're just assuming everything is the same.

How do you maintain gun hierarchy like that?

Even if M4A3 is similar to Ion Carbine raising the clip right now to 16 would only make it so that when 1v1 the contest would be decided on who can dodge better not whos clip can last longer.

The ROF of a lot of guns right now is on a very similar level so a 0.01 faster firerate of Ion Carbine doesn't mean it can significantly outspam guns.

Plus you underestimate the difference 0.03 more spread makes.

Thats like between GM4 & Vector, 0.06 vs 0.09 spread respectively.

They're both used very very differently.

Ion Carbine having a clip size of 16 would still make M4A3 a better choice, because its faster ROF & less freeze, plus its a status gun like how people who already have GM4 still goes for Vector.

Having an average reload time already gives plenty of room to dodge & capitalise of its lack of spread.

You can use M4 or BAR which are both highly effective.

The reason I left out the secondary mode is because, in spar its the primary mode which is used the most often, switching to secondary in spar against top level guns leaves you very very vulnerable, because of its high freeze & small clip, so its better to keep the discussion on the main stats of the gun.

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Dont use spacing so much geez, makes it that much harder to read

Bold text indicates the new statistic.

Name - Vector
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.29 0.3
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.3 0.45
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Name - Souizen/ FMG9/ BAG
Freeze - 0.12
Firerate - 0.25 0.32
Spread - 0.06
Clip - 12
Reload - 0.4
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N


Name - FOG
Freeze - 0.145
Firerate - 0.28 0.3
Spread - 0.065
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.2 0.4
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Name - Rafor
Freeze - 0.145
Firerate - 0.27 0.3
Spread - 0.065
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.2 0.4
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Name - SS50a3
Freeze - 0.142
Firerate - 0.28 0.305
Spread - 0.065
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.4
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Before the nerfs Souizen/ FMG9/ BAG, FOG, Rafor, SS50a3 all had faster firerate than Vector.

After the nerfs Vectors ROF is on the same level & in some cases faster than these auctions guns.

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Originally Posted by MasonForEc

Im commenting on how unthought out it was, dont talk to me about posting when ive posted more in a couple months. While it took you a year just to get 600...

If you cant handle my comedic passing it ons, I cant help you. Buts its pretty obvious his argument is flawed just as your reason to disclaim me is.


And its called being active in the forums you should try it some time.

He showed lack of empathy for Bitzsam simply because his favorite gun was nerfed? I dont think that justifies his approach.

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You shouldn't be proud of getting 600+ posts in 4 months. The forums aren't a big place, if it doesn't serve to my concern, I probably won't respond to it. That doesn't mean I'm not active, that just means that I know when to just watch.
Also, I try to make sure that a vast majority of my posts at least make some sort of point or have length, that way I'm not spamming out forums.
In 12 days from my recent post on this thread, you made 200 posts.


You need to see it from his perspective. If you bought an extremely expensive gun and it suddenly was weak, you'd be mad too.
Especially from a player like Austin, who owns multiple valuable items, he's freaking out because now he's extremely concerned over which one of his weapons suddenly turn into a priceless piece of trash.

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

You're completely wrong, the raffica change was literally a 0.005 decrease in firerate from 0.345- 0.35. KMP9 dual is worse than raffica in every category other than spread where it's equal. Worse freeze, worse firerate, worse reload time, worse damage. Stop over-dramatising things just to try get people who don't own the gun to know for themselves, have sympathy for you. The gun is literally bugged and can occasionally do 18 damage, and is easily the best auction gun

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Doesn't KMP9 has double the spread of Rafficas? Why did you said it's equal?

Name - KMP9
Freeze - 0.14 | 0.185
Firerate - 0.47 | 0.35
Spread - 0.1
Clip - 12
Reload - 0.36
Bullets - 1 | 2
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Name - Raffica(s)
Freeze - 0.159 | 0.15
Firerate - 0.3 | 0.35
Spread - 0.05
Clip - 16
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1 | 2
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

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Actually KMP9 right now is equal firerate to Rafficas.
Rafficas has 4 more bullets & a 0.06 faster reload than KMP9.

Main differences between these guns is Rafficas has 0.035 less freeze & does 1 more dmg than KMP9.

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Does KMP9 sometimes does 16 dmg ?

How are your hit timers set up? Like do you keep them all at a default unless the gun has a special reason for having a lower one (like stacked dmg or something) or do you use it like another stat and have them vary?

Curious question whats the reload freeze & hit timer on Ion Carbine, Ion SMG, Ion Pistols, GM4, Vector, Bar, M4 & KMP9.

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KMP9 seemingly has a very low hit timer from my experience sparring against it.

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Also on a lot of the other guns were left untouched in the ''Weapon Rebalancing''.

I'm just curious if those guns will be nerfed as well because of the ripple effect most notably Spectre, the $60k-100k guns, PBP AutoRifle, KMP9 & M4.

So yeah, the hit timer question

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There's still that issue with the hitbox and how the bullets hit your feet even tho they were clearly dodged, I can get that fix up

The hittimer on Ion Carbine is too high that it should be when compared to the other guns.

Quite often the second bullet doesn't even register, it should be decreased because it already has a very small clip.

On zone, I used to have the hit timers set at 0.2, that seemed fair and somewhat forgiving. I had them all lowered to 0.1 now, which is pretty hectic since most bullets count, its really unforgiving but its fun and does make people better fighters. On era, 0.2 should be the minimum for every gun, it keeps the action fast and a 0.1 hit timer would make stacked dmg guns lose a lot of purpose. The guns now feel like their hit timers vary, which if they do can really throw off a gun since its hard to judge that from vision alone, if its gonna be changed around as a stat then it needs to be shown with the other stats like rof and stuff because its just as important. We need Sam to confirm this tho

Yeah, definitely agree that guns should have their hit timer stat shown. It threw me off for awhile when PDW was released why every bullet that hit me in a short period of time was actually doing damage before I finally realize that the gun has a lower hit timer than most. Some other guns I can think off the top of my head with a bit low of a hit timer is the AKM, UMP45, G36C Tact, Akimbo G18s, 44. Magnum, GM4( after it's buff and using the Single fire mode) and others I could possibly be missing. It will just make things easier if the stat was listed with the other stats as it's just as important.

Name - Raffica(s)
Freeze - 0.159 | 0.15
Firerate - 0.3 | 0.35
Spread - 0.05
Clip - 16
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1 | 2
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Name - Maccus Uzi(s)
Freeze - 0.2 | 0.17
Firerate - 0.15 | 0.32
Spread - 0.05
Clip - 20
Reload - 0.4
Bullets - 1 | 2
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Rafficas has 0.02 less freeze & does 8 dmg & 0.1 faster reload.
Maccus Uzis has a faster firerate by 0.03 & a bigger clip by 8(when dual) & does 7 dmg.
The spread is the same.

Maccus Uzis seems like a really good deal costing $60k for both.
Really similar to to Rafficas except the dmg.

My only question is will it be nerfed?

Thanks for answering my question about Default Rifle.

I definitely will not be buying it.

As of now Maccus Uzis & Pbp AutoRifle are the 2 guns I'm interested in because they seem really fun.

Will the be nerfed if so by how much?

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Originally Posted by imSupah

Yeah, definitely agree that guns should have their hit timer stat shown. It threw me off for awhile when PDW was released why every bullet that hit me in a short period of time was actually doing damage before I finally realize that the gun has a lower hit timer than most. Some other guns I can think off the top of my head with a bit low of a hit timer is the AKM, UMP45, G36C Tact, Akimbo G18s, 44. Magnum, GM4( after it's buff and using the Single fire mode) and others I could possibly be missing. It will just make things easier if the stat was listed with the other stats as it's just as important.

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Actually, the dual glocks makes sense on having a low hit timer since they cost 150k gralats.

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Originally Posted by JimmY1809

Actually, the dual glocks makes sense on having a low hit timer since they cost 150k gralats.

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Oh, I know. I'm just saying Sam should incorporate the hit timer to the guns stats page as it allows us to see if the hit timer is high, average or low. Unless he does a global number, but I doubt that since the different gun categories (snipers, shotguns, burst rifles, etc)..