Limiting Ammo

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Originally Posted by imaginary

Y r u even comparing iera to era PC, they barely get 50 players online + you suddenly want to change something that would affect lots of things. It's just gonna make it worse for us players and Ofc we're going to complain

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Read the thread first. The change isn't only negative

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Makes 0 sense for all guns to use the same ammo when they're all different types. Rocketlauncher firing a bullet???

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Rather than an ammo box, make it an ammo cache. In game it would be represented by one box and cover all "ammo types". My only real complaint is that it would be removing a key feature from VIP buyers who specifically purchase monthly and or yearly for the sole purpose of being able to have unlimited revives and ammo.

I can see this working out BUT you would need to compensate for the fact tons of people would be angered by the fact they were "robbed" gralats for a half assed VIP deal.

On A Side Note:

I know you are all for skill based play as am I, and I am all for change, however not all change is good and can have reverse effects. Maybe if you would want to create less spam you can try thinking from a different approach such as lowering the set amount of members that can be in a gang from 25 to 20 or 15. Or make another option, when forming a gang you would be prompted a choice, a base gang which has a set amount of members or a normal "chill" gang that has the default 25 members. The difference being those gangs would not be able to take flags or participate in forting events, but would be able to be used for gang spar and all activities outside of basing.

Guns aren't the problem, when this server was smaller and less people had expensive guns it was more balanced. But seeing as how the game has grown in population over the years its easy to see the immense change

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Originally Posted by Anero

This. It would be annoying - not much more.

Maybe take a look at the core of the spamming 'problem' instead.
I don't think unlimited ammo is the main reason why people spam?

Maybe it's because their gun's statistics are exactly how they are?

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If you could in the recent post I have made there is actually more ways than one to tackle the problem. It isnt the guns fault for having the stats it has, and it certainly isnt the consumers fault for wanting the gun, it is the overall basing system itself that is flawed. Try engaging the problem from the angle I provided, is it a lot of work? Of course, but in the end you wont have angry customers upset that the guns they bought got nerfed. Rather than nerf the guns nerf the literal gangs. Basing is clogged up by a few gangs at most and the competition is solely between those few gangs (example: Obsidian and Darkside). Not only do they have their main tag full of 25 people, they often also have their subs at least half full. Think about it, with 4 gangs fighting each other a once with all members online that is 100+ people not counting the pkers that swarm in during forting events. There is no skill because people can just zerg rush and create hordes of members.

I don't see reducing gang sizes as making any difference as they can just use allies. Also gangs rarely even have more than 10 people on defending unless it is a large gang in a gang war.

Yes it would remove unlimited ammo but the upside is you wouldn't have to spend time running around the map picking up ammo as you could fully stock yourself up within a minute at an ammo store.

That being said if you actually add up the costs that you get from VIP, it is already more than 7.5K and that's not even counting the item you also get. So even with the removal of the unlimited ammo you are still getting more/ at the most the amount you are paying for.
Personally the perfect shape and unlimited revives alone is enough to warrant the VIPs costs.

An ammo cache wouldn't work as the ammo each have different prices. And would kind of defeat the purpose of what I'm trying to do.

Ammo packs in moderation, maybe costing $100 gralats and giving 500 ammo or so depending on the type I think is realistic. The price being considerably more expensive than buying the ammo straight out means it would be used as a last resort item if you were in a fight and really needed ammo, rather than something for people to keep using basically allowing for unlimited ammo.


And again. Spam is not the only thing that this would address, as I also stated it would allow for a new balancing variable. A lack of which is what is preventing me from wanting to add more guns until there is something that will give more diversity.

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

I don't see reducing gang sizes as making any difference as they can just use allies. Also gangs rarely even have more than 10 people on defending unless it is a large gang in a gang war.

Yes it would remove unlimited ammo but the upside is you wouldn't have to spend time running around the map picking up ammo as you could fully stock yourself up within a minute at an ammo store.

That being said if you actually add up the costs that you get from VIP, it is already more than 7.5K and that's not even counting the item you also get. So even with the removal of the unlimited ammo you are still getting more/ at the most the amount you are paying for.
Personally the perfect shape and unlimited revives alone is enough to warrant the VIPs costs.

An ammo cache wouldn't work as the ammo each have different prices. And would kind of defeat the purpose of what I'm trying to do.

Ammo packs in moderation, maybe costing $100 gralats and giving 500 ammo or so depending on the type I think is realistic. The price being considerably more expensive than buying the ammo straight out means it would be used as a last resort item if you were in a fight and really needed ammo, rather than something for people to keep using basically allowing for unlimited ammo.


And again. Spam is not the only thing that this would address, as I also stated it would allow for a new balancing variable. A lack of which is what is preventing me from wanting to add more guns until there is something that will give more diversity.

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Subtags was something I also took into account as well, if someone tried using a 25 person gang as a subtag they would be unable to heal or steal the flag in order to save the base. I agree unless there is a war there are usually less people on a tag, but because of the sheer amount of people that can belong to a gang at any single time, there is less of a margin to differentiate. Having less members being able to belong to one tag would in my personal opinion give way for more variety as well as fix the ongoing issues that people have with forting events and basing in general. Because lets be honest in the current state it is in, graals basing has become less about actual individual skill and more about the sheer amount of people a gang can utilize at once.

I like you said how you want to add some realism by doing this yet there are so many items in this game that is not realistic at all it's not even funny. Instead of having ammo shops have a purpose make the bank and ATM's have a purpose, that would be a hell of a lot more useful than limiting ammo in my opinion. You have ATM's everywhere around the whole map, buyable ATM's as furniture, even including a whole BANK so make the bank and the ATM's have a purpose instead.

I can see why this idea would be good, but it would be a nuisance for some players who only play to spar or base and enjoy that part of the game not having to collect trash when it barely spawns just so they can get to the part of the game they enjoy.

If I implemented this change would you rather have lower ammo count but cheap ammo or higher ammo count but more expensive than the cheaper option.

Eg 2500 rifle ammo at $8-10 gralats per 100 or 6000 rifle ammo at $20-25 per 100. Keep in mind for higher tier ammo types (explosive) that price would also rise by the same percentage.

Respond with an answer that is one of the two provided or I will disregard your opinion for future posts on this thread

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

If I implemented this change would you rather have lower ammo count but cheap ammo or higher ammo count but more expensive than the cheaper option.

Eg 2500 rifle ammo at $8-10 gralats per 100 or 6000 rifle ammo at $20-25 per 100. Keep in mind for higher tier ammo types (explosive) that price would also rise by the same percentage.

Respond with an answer that is one of the two provided or I will disregard your opinion for future posts on this thread

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I back this implementation, which I already did support since then. The only problem is that the mass would be straightforward on this idea that might affect how they would sense the importance that you are trying to provide. I hope they'd be tasteful and not show ignorance on the matter itself. I wish you great luck Sammy.

If it was really gonna be implemented which it shouldn't because so many people are against it, I would choose 6000 rifle ammo for $20-$25.

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Originally Posted by N!chola$

If it was really gonna be implemented which it shouldn't because so many people are against it, I would choose 6000 rifle ammo for $20-$25.

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10000 ammo for shotgun for $10

Wait would it be stack able? meaning you can buy more then just one ammo pack at a time, because i go through more then 6000 bullets in a fort.

Obviously lol, idk why you'd think i'd make it so you had to individually by 100 ammo at a time

Amen Bitzsam, you're always doing the right thing, that's why I respect you.

I hope this never sees the light of day.

This change is beyond ridiculous and a nuisance for anybody seriously trying to compete anywhere.
V.I.P. enabled people to have unlimited ammo, so what would happen to them?
People who bought it for a year because they thought they'd receive all the perks... would now have to buy ammo anyway? Brilliant.

People will still spam, and it'll just be annoying. Not much more.
As stated previously, I wish you'd focus on the main issue and nerf overpowered guns.
We were able to collect ammo on the streets for roughly seven years and now we're supposed to buy it, just because you're trying to make Era more realistic and effectively stop spamming?

What's the point? Era is a game, not real-life. And spamming won't stop through this change.

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Originally Posted by Anero

I hope this never sees the light of day.

This change is beyond ridiculous and a nuisance for anybody seriously trying to compete anywhere.
V.I.P. enabled people to have unlimited ammo, so what would happen to them?
People who bought it for a year because they thought they'd receive all the perks... would now have to buy ammo anyway? Brilliant.

People will still spam, and it'll just be annoying. Not much more.
As stated previously, I wish you'd focus on the main issue and nerf overpowered guns.
We were able to collect ammo on the streets for roughly seven years and now we're supposed to buy it, just because you're trying to make Era more realistic and effectively stop spamming?

What's the point? Era is a game, not real-life. And spamming won't stop through this change.

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I pretty much addressed all of those issues in my last response to you. The view you are taking is very one dimensional as you are only focusing on 'spamming ' which was only 1 point out of the several this change can address

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

easier said than done.
When people have paid substantial real money for certain guns there is only so much you can do to the guns themselves before they become vastly different.

I don't really agree on that either, infinite ammo, or at least an excessive amount IS a large factor in the spamming culture of the game. Why do they spam? Because they don't care about how much ammo they have as it's infinite. If you had a maximum ammo capacity that was a number and then had prices for ammo then you would be less careless with how much you spam. Even if it's just a little bit, it would still be something. Sure the general guns wouldn't change all that much but you would definitely see a difference in certain explosive guns/ high tier guns as their ammo would be more expensive and so people may not use them as excessively as they currently do.

In those circumstances the only way to fix things is to implement new systems that take an outer approach on the issues

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A lot of people are only focusing on individual aspects of this idea when you are meant to look at it as a whole. I listed multiple points on what a change like this would do, so you can't really single out a single point and use that as the reason why it isn't a good idea.
There are over 100 guns in this game, and that is probably even an understatment. The majority of stat combinations have already been done, and similar varient are also done. If you want to see more guns getting added to the game there has to be new systems implemented to allow for more variation.

This is an extreme example and isn't completely realistic but i'll give an example on what this could allow. It could potentially allow for gun types that are extremely powerful, but the drawback is they're costly.
For example I could add a rocket launcher that delt 20 damage. However the gun would only have a ammo capacity of 5, and each ammo could be sold at $1000-2000 gralats.
That way you have that damage potential in the game, however you would only see it used VERY sparingly because of the high cost.

Now obviously thats an extreme example but it should still give an idea.
The idea itself is very barebones. If you wanted to go further, rather than have gun types you could do it on weapon damage. So an 8 damage guns ammo could cost $5 gralats and then have a 9 damage gun be $15 etc. that could lead to more people opting to use a cheaper gun for the sake of cost saving. (However the reason I didn't propose this is because it would favour gralat pack buyers).

It could potentially even lead to some strong guns that would usually be sold for a high gralat price be sold cheaper and have the drawback being more expensive ammo.
For example I could sell a unique gun (unique gun being a gun that doesn't fall within the base category of a handgun, smg, rifle, lmg, sniper or explosive gun) with the same stats as the shipka (120k) for 60-80k. And then price the ammo for that gun as more expensive than it is for the standard ammo in order to balance out the cheaper cost. That way it could give some people the alternative to buy certain powerful guns that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford, and be able to use them just in more limited bursts than the players with the expensive gun as they may not always be able to afford to keep using it. However it still acts as an alternative and something different.

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Cool

There's no problem with spam in bases. If u start adding different types of ammo ppl are still going to spam bar as they'll just keep buying more ammo. It will also cause problems with fort as the whole of idea is to spam.

Listen, I'm broke and I barley buy anything in this game as it is because of the lack of money I spend on this game, if this gets added then I won't be able to spar anymore lol.

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Originally Posted by Imarly

There's no problem with spam in bases. If u start adding different types of ammo ppl are still going to spam bar as they'll just keep buying more ammo. It will also cause problems with fort as the whole of idea is to spam.

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The whole idea of fort isn't to spam, fort as a whole doesn't even play out as it was meant to. Do you really think a fort event would be designed with the intention of players being unable to move more than 5 steps inside the base without dying.
Fort was meant to be something that brought a large number of players to challenge the base defenders so it would be like a players vs defending gang. However in reality fort actually makes defending easier as nobody bothers attacking thr flag.

If bars ammo price was done correctly then you could influence people to only use BAR sparingly. It could even reduce the bar users in spar as it could be made to expensive to use regularly and so people would opt for guns with cheaper ammo like normal 8 damage guns.
And again- spam in bases isn't the main point of this however it would make a change even if it's just a little

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Originally Posted by Toxic

Listen, I'm broke and I barley buy anything in this game as it is because of the lack of money I spend on this game, if this gets added then I won't be able to spar anymore lol.

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Sparrers won't really be effected at all by this as you don't need much ammo for spars as they generally don't last long.
Pick 3 pieces of trash and then you can afford 100-200 bullets for an assault rifle. It'd probably be easier to find enough trash to buy ammo than to find ammo to pick up like we currently have. The only reason you see ammo lying around often is because most people have unlimited ammo and don't need to pick it up.

VIP is your best friend that's why there's ammo laying around. Will VIP still include unlimited ammo if this is implemented in the game?

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Originally Posted by Toxic

VIP is your best friend that's why there's ammo laying around. Will VIP still include unlimited ammo if this is implemented in the game?

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Would kind of defeat the purpose if it did

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Would kind of defeat the purpose if it did

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Then vip price needs to be reduced and we need to get a percentage of our money back because that is also what we are paying for. It would be a rip off if we didn't get a reduction after you taking are unlimited ammo away.

BTW good luck giving all the people their money back, there are some people that have bought for months/year and they will need the money back for the ammo you are taking away.

Unlimited ammo isn't the only thing you paid VIP for. Even removing the cost of monthly unlimited ammo it's still over 7.5k.
To say you ONLY bought vip for unlimited ammo is just an excuse to try use as an argument because you don't like the change.
Perfect shape and unlimited revives are the important aspects of VIP, not the unlimited ammo. VIP Unlimited ammo itself is almost redundant thanks to the frequency of freebies which provide that

So i gotta buy gralat packs to get ammo? Getting money is hard af

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Unlimited ammo isn't the only thing you paid VIP for. Even removing the cost of monthly unlimited ammo it's still over 7.5k.
To say you ONLY bought vip for unlimited ammo is just an excuse to try use as an argument because you don't like the change.
Perfect shape and unlimited revives are the important aspects of VIP, not the unlimited ammo. VIP Unlimited ammo itself is almost redundant thanks to the frequency of freebies which provide that

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Actually I only buy VIP for unlimited ammo and revive i have minerals for perfect shape anyways.

$3,400 (28 day revie even thought it should be 30.4 days)
$300 (Perfect shape for me because i only use bar)
Speed boost, i can go on the thread mill for 15 mins to get it for a week FOR FREE

SO for me, since you said "removing the cost of monthly unlimited ammo it's still over 7.5k" is false for me. It adds up to $3,700 which means I should get a $3,800 refund.

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Originally Posted by N!chola$

Actually I only buy VIP for unlimited ammo and revive i have minerals for perfect shape anyways.

$3,400 (28 day revie even thought it should be 30.4 days)
$300 (Perfect shape for me because i only use bar)
Speed boost, i can go on the thread mill for 15 mins to get it for a week FOR FREE

SO for me, since you said "removing the cost of monthly unlimited ammo it's still over 7.5k" is false for me. It adds up to $3,700 which means I should get a $3,900 refund.

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Same idc about the faster walking speed and stuff i only buy vip for the unlimited ammo unlim revive and perfect condition. I dont care about the item anymore cus they never release it on time.bitz thinks we all have alot of money cus he only sees people with like 1mil gralats bruh i have 44 gralats.

lol, i have 10k gralats but id rather save for better items that come out. (Holiday shop)

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Originally Posted by N!chola$

lol, i have 10k gralats but id rather save for better items that come out. (Holiday shop)

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Your so optimistic

So u want ppl to stop using a gun that they've bought with real money?

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Originally Posted by hohi416

Same idc about the faster walking speed and stuff i only buy vip for the unlimited ammo unlim revive and perfect condition. I dont care about the item anymore cus they never release it on time.bitz thinks we all have alot of money cus he only sees people with like 1mil gralats bruh i have 44 gralats.

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Well you should care about fast walking speed because without it you are at a significant disadvantage. I don't think you all have a lot of money, as I have said the prices for my original proposition were between $5-10 gralats on 100 ammo. $5 being the handgun ammo and $10 being the assault rifle ammo. I don't see any way you can convince me that is unreasonable when you could literally pick flowers for 10 seconds and effectively have earnt 100 bullets already.

If you are a baser then you probably would already have enough body parts found from killing people.

You guys are just being unwilling to change and not even suggesting anything alternative you might prefer. As I have said, until a new system is added you probably won't see any new guns added.
If you hate guns being nerfed so much, this system would have allowed me to do an alternate change to a gun that was OP so that I could 'nerf' it without actually having to make the stats worse.

People complaining about the chemgun being blocked, if this system was in place on the server I wouldn't have had to block it as I could have just altered the ammo price/ capacity so that the stats could stay the same and be used in bases just not as a weapon with unlimited ammo you could limitlessly spam and use all day

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Originally Posted by Imarly

So u want ppl to stop using a gun that they've bought with real money?

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How will this stop them using their gun? You think they'll just switch to using a melee as their primary weapon instead?


All I ever see are people saying era is p2w, or guns are unbalanced, or certain guns are OP, yet any attempt that is made to correct those issues is instantly rejected. Why? Because people are afraid if their guns aren't op anymore, people who they previously could easily kill because of how strong their gun is might start to get beaten if the game is balanced out because they don't actually have skill, and have relied purely on their overpowered guns getting them kills

Skill based play is more fun because it is more rewarding. You feel like you have achieved something if you beat someone using skill. Using an OP gun to win all the time is the same as using cheat codes in a game. It's fun for the first 10 minutes and then becomes boring as it doesn't require any effort or focus

I am for this idea if it means high-tier guns are cheaper up front. I'm absolutely ok with buying bullets for a gun that could go toe to toe with BAR if it costed less to make the initial purchase of the gun.

That's part of the idea yes.

I don't think people realise that unlimited ammo hinders gameplay. It wasn't added to make the game better, it was added because it was an easy way to generate game profit from people who couldn't be bothered collecting ammo

Ik what your getting at the game is p2w but if you've spent £50+ on a gun there shouldn't be restrictions on its use.

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Originally Posted by Imarly

Ik what your getting at the game is p2w but if you've spent £50+ on a gun there shouldn't be restrictions on its use.

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There aren't restrictions on its use unless you are unable to put in 5 minutes effort to pick enough trash to afford a few more thousand bullets. That if you have 0 gralats

Non-generic ammo should be limited in the amount that you can carry, too. That way you not only are having to consider the less expendable nature of the ammo but also what weapons to use to get the most efficient usage out of your ammo even more.


Maybe starting out a player should get a "primary" starter gun in addition to the starter pistol instead of the uzi? And for players who already completed the tutorial, an npc could be put somewhere to give out this starter primary. Perhaps the inspiration for the design of this gun could be the KSO-9, it's a 9mm carbine that seems suitable as a starter primary because of the unique design, pistol caliber and players could tell that it is better than the starter pistol on most fronts just from the look of it.

This isn't real life, its a game, I see no need what so ever for it. We have lollipop sword for crying out loud.

I actually like the thought of this idea, it would be interesting to see how this plays on Era iPhone.

Dude can you just focus on something on more productive? lol? You say you want to make the game more fun then how about just focusing on Countryside and focus on making more content updates for the game. This "update" is so useless no one wants to waste their time leaving the base to go buy ammo hence the reason we buy VIP. You have been pushing for this idea way too much who cares if the game is realistic or not we just wanna play for fun and there is nothing fun sounding about this idea AT ALL.

Is this official, BiTzSam? I'm asking because this sounds interesting

Funny thing is that he might add this regardless if player's opinion.


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