BAR nerf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SashaGryg

Bruh, its 10 damage medium speed not stuck weapon, what are u talking about???

---

You stated that since its expensive so it needs a buff
So i said you wanna have to deal with 12 damage bars that shoot faster?

The bar dominates in spar because of its high damage, fire rate, and spread. There is no gun that can compete with that spam. Anyone can rush to the bottom and spam tap and they can beat anyone. It isn't much of a problem in bases and in the streets but in spar it's a problem.

The only problem everyone keeps bringing up is its op in spar so remove it from spar (very small section of players) and not ruin it for the rest of the players (vast majority of players). Also won't multiplex take care of the spar problems and make it much more based on skill? Even if 100 players get on this thread and say nurf the bar your not getting a good cross section of the game which makes the results of this poll invalid and no action should be taken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zernov

The bar dominates in spar because of its high damage, fire rate, and spread. There is no gun that can compete with that spam. Anyone can rush to the bottom and spam tap and they can beat anyone. It isn't much of a problem in bases and in the streets but in spar it's a problem.

---

It was a big problem before first nerf, but nowadays i can surely state that bar IS NOT overpowered in spar anymore, you can easily beat it by ghost m4 or any other good made-for-spar gun. It is not stucked anymore and it does not have really big fire rate. What about damage, do not you think, that m107 or peacemaker are overpowered also then? Yep, it sucks at spar even more, but if i use your logic, it is overpowered because of huge damage of each bullet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bram

I see that you've never actually pked or sparred with it.

---

Tg
Here are actually much better pk guns aside from pbp. Bar is actually kind of slow when you compare to other guns like fmg.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bram

not really sure in what way it will be nerfed that's up to sam.
Probs make bar a little slower

---

Also, if bar got a very slight decrease, gm4 would greatly overpower it in almost every combat situation, I wouldn't mind a buff on reload though. I personally believe that using other guns to beat bar, or facing bar in spar or other types of gameplay without bar makes your skill bounce tenfold.

I completely agree that the BAR should be nerfed on some aspects, but let's be honest here; BAR is not overpowered anymore on spar. If you use your spread, and freeze wisely, you could easily beat a BAR, the BAR doesn't have a good freeze, and it is a "spammy" gun, so the opponent doesn't have a good movement on the BAR.

Because of that certain aspect, I could not agree between the argument of nerfing or buffing the BAR, so I looked closer on it and I realized that it is a killing machine on bases, you could spam a door, or a narrow place and it'll do the work, it's spammy, and have a lot of damage. So apparently the BAR is a very lethal and a strong weapon, but the movement that the user of the BAR have is very slow, the clip reload takes a long time to reload, and the freeze is too high.

So my idea to balance the BAR is to implement a idea that BitzSam proposed a while ago, I don't remember so well where he posted this, but there was a idea of him saying that a if a gun was on perfect state, instead of dealing the upgraded damage (For example, if you "fix" or "upgrade" your gun, the damage will increase, for example if you upgrade the BAR, instead of dealing 9HP of damage, it will deal 10HP of damage), you would have a 75% chance of dealing the non-upgraded damage.

The last paragraph may seem too difficult to understand, so here is a example; when you buy for the first time a BAR, it'll do 9 damage since it's not on the perfect condition, so you use your mineral and upgrade it, when you do so, the damage of the BAR will increase to 10. Now is where the 75% chance idea comes, you have a 75% of chances to deal 10 damage when the weapon is on perfect condition, so either the BAR could be a 5-shot kill, or if you're not lucky enough, then it could be a 6-shot kill.

Considered if this would be implemented, would make the BAR a worst gun on spar indeed, since every player you could counter in will be always at full 50HP, but on the streets, you can find a bunch of people with 43HP, 36HP, 28HP, and a lot different variations of HP, so on the streets most likely the BAR will continue to be a 5 shot kill.

But since we nerved the BAR, I think that they should also be compensated with their weakness - the movement. If you lower their strength, then make their weakness better. And yes, the BAR should be buffed with less freeze, and less reload time.

Honestly guys, the only people that want it nerfed have auction guns, and the only reason people complain about the bar is for spar, no one that suggested the Nerf on this thread cares about basing or forts or pk. I don't see a good reason on why it should be needed just for one aspect of gameplay when all other gameplays will fry. Gm4 will end up being better, then you guys will ask for more nerfs. If you practice and get enough skill, you actually will be able to beat bar users. Just practice.

If I get the chance to record, I'll give everyone an example video of why it's stupidly strong.

- - - Updated - - -

In every situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarkKnightTactics

Honestly guys, the only people that want it nerfed have auction guns, and the only reason people complain about the bar is for spar, no one that suggested the Nerf on this thread cares about basing or forts or pk. I don't see a good reason on why it should be needed just for one aspect of gameplay when all other gameplays will fry. Gm4 will end up being better, then you guys will ask for more nerfs. If you practice and get enough skill, you actually will be able to beat bar users. Just practice.

---

Lol, enough skill means skill of medium sparrer? You can beat bar even with m4. And i liked your words about practise

Why nerf the gun? Leave it alone. If you know how to PK you can murk a bar noob any day. I do it all the time. What's a bar to a sawed ak

To be honest I stop reading whenever people start to say "When in spar". (Yes it's amazing I don't like shooting in a box)

As a gamer you probably don't want to join a game to get instantly killed with 5-6 shots. (Starter pistol is 10-25 hits to kill) Most would think to...
1.)Avoid anyone using that gun so you don't die.
2.)Buy the same gun too cheese other players.

The defense of the weapons is usually...
1.)Don't remove my 5-6 hit, fully automatic assault rifle, 20 clip weapon. Totes doesnt sound Op and the incarnation of bull and cheese.
2.)I spent real money/worked for it.(Should've known a nerf/buff is coming as it's one of the most Op weapons so it's your own fault a little.)

But if you are going to nerf the Rof on bar nerf the gm4 as well to balance out. Also acr is abit Op for it's price.

your paying approximately 60$ usd for an in game pixalated item. it deserves to be the best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpyN64

your paying approximately 60$ usd for an in game pixalated item. it deserves to be the best.

---

But it's not even the best though and people who don't have it want it nerfed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpyN64

your paying approximately 60$ usd for an in game pixalated item. it deserves to be the best.

---

Just like any free to play, Era is freeeeeeee. Using money is optional and up to the consumer's decision. Its like buying a nuke. Sure it's powerful but you must remember people will put laws and regulations on it due to its effectiveness. Should you invest in it or not? Same with bar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oreo Rey Zephlyn

Just like any free to play, Era is freeeeeeee. Using money is optional and up to the consumer's decision. Its like buying a nuke. Sure it's powerful but you must remember people will put laws and regulations on it due to its effectiveness. Should you invest in it or not? Same with bar.

---

You're comparing a deadly lethal nuke to a pixelated 2d gun?..
and I've never heard of laws for nukes... lmao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oreo Rey Zephlyn

Just like any free to play, Era is freeeeeeee. Using money is optional and up to the consumer's decision. Its like buying a nuke. Sure it's powerful but you must remember people will put laws and regulations on it due to its effectiveness. Should you invest in it or not? Same with bar.

---

You're talking as if everyone owns a nuke and there has to be a law for having one.
Only the government/ defence forces own nukes and I'm sure they are fully aware
of how they should be using it.

I doubt there's a law for nukes...

The primary reason for wanting to nerf the BAR is to bring “skill-based play” back to the game.
While I too would like to see skill become a requirement of competition, I cannot stand by a “yes” or “no” vote in this poll.

At this point in time, merely nerfing the BAR will not yield the results we are seeking.
The BAR is not the only culprit; in fact, if it were brought to equilibrium, other outliers will reveal themselves—as other members have already pointed out.

The only way to effectively bring this server back to skill-based play would be to take each and every gun, lay them out based on price & type to establish tiers, and re-stat them all accordingly.
In this process of re-statting, the focus should be uniqueness; there are enough stats to go around that no two guns of the same tier should be similar.

No pun intended—it has set the bar of what a top-tier gun should be, and each Gun Admin from that point forward has had to keep the BAR in mind when creating newer guns.
In order to make the players’ purchase meaningful, top-tier guns have needed to compete with it on some level.

The only ethical time to single out the BAR—if any ever existed—was immediately following its release.
To go back and try to fix this later—after other guns have already been created with it in mind— will further disrupt the balance; in addition to being unethical.

The only ethical way to bring skill-based play back into the server is to take an “all or nothing” approach”.
In July 2014, we had this conversation about the BAR being nerfed, and the last statement made in my post was as follows:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meph

II
If their goal is to bring the server back to skill-based play and balance the guns with this standard in mind, they’re going to have to modify the guns globally and create a new starting point. The one we have now has very little variety to spark the interest of anybody that wants skill-based play.

Fortunately, this won’t ruin anybody’s purchase- if every gun is nerfed equally, they all have the same respective stats to one-another. The real problem with guns right now isn’t that they’re powerful, it’s that people can achieve victory using cheap tactics such as spamming. Low freeze on these guns is what makes spamming effective, since their movement isn’t impeded and they have no repercussions for doing it. This said, I would start with freeze.

If you added 0.04 freeze to every gun on the server, spamming on the server would decrease tremendously. While they would still be able to do it, it wouldn’t be as effective of a technique, since they would be more vulnerable while they were holding their fire button down. To put it in perspective:

• BAR would go from 0.20 to 0.24 freeze, putting it at about the current freeze of an AK47(0.25). So just envision an AK47 dealing 10 damage.
• Shipka would go from 0.21 to 0.25, which is exactly the current freeze of an ACR(0.25).
• Souizen would go from 0.12 to 0.16—which is the current freeze of a MetalStorm(0.16).
• Vulcan Minigun would go from 0.10 to 0.14, which is about the current freeze of a Ghost M4(0.145).
• Respectively, the guns mentioned here would be: AK47(0.29), ACR(0.29), MetalStorm(0.20), GhostM4(0.185)

Spamming would still be possible, but not as effective as it currently is. People would be forced to apply more technique than simply holding their buttons down. And, while it would still be possible with guns such as the Souizen and Vulcan Minigun, they’d be much slower than they currently are, and they’re already met with counter stats that would be more prominently evident (Souizen’s long reload, or Minigun’s low damage).

Once this issue is addressed, and everybody’s not focusing on spamming, they’ll begin focusing on the other stats that make a gun unique, and relieve the Gun Admins from the pressure of having to compromise freeze so that people would make the purchase. The players would be more appreciative of these, and instead, make their purchases based on things such as clip size, reload freeze, spread, and rate of fire. Hell—even the graphic would play a large role in stats—the bullet being positioned at the barrel enables longer guns to shoot over walls, and shorter guns to wreak havoc close-range, and emphasize spread more.

Our society needs to identify what it wants, and put faith in somebody to see through that it happens.
You can't dance around the elephant in the room forever.

---

The recommendation to add 0.04 freeze to every gun was made, but there was a kink in the system, so it was ultimately reverted:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meph

The only thing that was supposed to be impacted was the freeze;
It appears fire rate has also been effected by the change.

Freeze isn't supposed to impact fire rate; they're two entirely different stats.

This is a bug and we're addressing it.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry for the inconvenience, peeps.

iEra is scripted in a way that we cannot separate freeze from fire rate-- fire rate hinges on freeze, so when we nerfed freeze, fire rate was heavily impacted.

Obviously, since nerfing fire rate wasn't the intent, it's all been switched back to normal.

It's funny, when I was a GA in 2008 on PC Era, I was able to alter freeze and fire rate independently.
It seems with the transfer to iEra, the stats have been joined.

It's a real shame because, one of the main counters to a high fire rate is a high freeze.
on iEra, the only comparable stat we can change to counter a high fire rate is damage.
It really limits our flexibility.

My sincerest apologies; I take full wraps for this.
Again- Everything is back to normal.

---

Given that this change would be a hard pill for the community to swallow, I’ve actually given up on trying to balance the server at large.
I’ve instead put my efforts towards the Multiplex project, which will facilitate an environment for those players who seek skill-based play, by eliminating the element of weapon advantage.

With Multiplex, I have created a separate gun script that addresses the above issue, and treats freeze and fire rate as individual stats.
Hence, they can be adjusted independently of one-another with the Multiplex Gun.

Cited sources:
Era-Go thread: The Bar
Era-Go thread: Weapon Stat Changes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slapjack

nerf it NERF IT nerf it NERF IT

---

Nerf Nerf Nerf! I love taytay swift.

That's the funny part buy a gun using real life money just to use us and nerf the gun

If the biggest problem is using it in spar, ban it from spar, problem solved. No nerf needed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpyN64

your paying approximately 60$ usd for an in game pixalated item. it deserves to be the best.

---

Paying $60 is your choice.
You don't need to pay real money for a pixelated item, Lel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItzTerry

Paying $60 is your choice.
You don't need to pay real money for a pixelated item, Lel.

---

Our money keeps this game running

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oreo Rey Zephlyn

Just like any free to play, Era is freeeeeeee. Using money is optional and up to the consumer's decision. Its like buying a nuke. Sure it's powerful but you must remember people will put laws and regulations on it due to its effectiveness. Should you invest in it or not? Same with bar.

---

Era+ was 1.99 idk if you know that lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killakev

If the biggest problem is using it in spar, ban it from spar, problem solved. No nerf needed

---

Spar is really about the skills, its just losers that says 'BAR is too OP' because obviously they dont have enough skill to beat other players

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by *Z.D The Great

Spar is really about the skills, its just losers that says 'BAR is too OP' because obviously they dont have enough skill to beat other players

---

It's the exact same thing as saying you spent a few bucks on it.

If you're gonna nerf the BAR, the. nerf the Chemical Gun too.

The plus versions are .99 but on most appstores they only have one version of the Graal Games that are plus but not labled plus. For example: Facebook and Amazon their version of Graal is just Graal Era/Zone/Classic no plus version.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giuseppe

Our money keeps this game running

- - - Updated - - -


Era+ was 1.99 idk if you know that lol

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by *Z.D The Great

You're comparing a deadly lethal nuke to a pixelated 2d gun?..
and I've never heard of laws for nukes... lmao

---

There are laws definitely for them.
1.)Can only be used/owned by National Powers
2.)Testings are limited due to polutions and area affects
3.)Using a nuclear weapon will break multiple national treaties which in said treaties not allow the usage of said nukes
4.)Limited amount of nuclear weapons per Major Power

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stan

If you're gonna nerf the BAR, the. nerf the Chemical Gun too.

---

This

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stan

If you're gonna nerf the BAR, the. nerf the Chemical Gun too.

---

You have to work hard for the cg, only certain players can have it
However, everybody could have bar in few mins with Itunes
Chemical derserve its stats

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morganga

You have to work hard for the cg, only certain players can have it
However, everybody could have bar in few mins with Itunes
Chemical derserve its stats

---

You are correct, that is the reason that bar is p2w at the damage output that it is now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myst

You are correct, that is the reason that bar is p2w at the damage output that it is now.

---

Same lullaby with flamethrower now it is nothing special but common.

Vote NO! — No we can't!


only reason people want bar nerfed is because their spar kd is getting ruined as they lack skill. Surprise Surprise, it is not a legit reason. Spar is for fun...So damage doesn't matter as if it just difference from +1 dmg.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceFighter

Same lullaby with flamethrower now it is nothing special but common.

Vote NO! — No we can't!


only reason people want bar nerfed is because their spar kd is getting ruined as they lack skill. Surprise Surprise, it is not a legit reason. Spar is for fun...So damage doesn't matter as if it just difference from +1 dmg.

---

As mentioned the bar does not require a degree of skill or time to obtain, instead the bar can be purchased within seconds due to packs,

Nerf isnt gonna happen :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myst

As mentioned the bar does not require a degree of skill or time to obtain, instead the bar can be purchased within seconds due to packs,

---

Your point is?

If bar will get nerfed, please give me back atleast 100k gralats.
Thanks. I wasted 200k on that gun to ended up making it get nerfed? and the freeze on the gun is already bad enough.

Bram , please don't use the forums again , you are going to ruin the game.. Bar cost 200k that's around $70 USD if you're buying it through iTunes etc. P2K's been nerfed already and they cost 200k AND 100k kills, seriously just stop.. The only people who want a Nerf is the people who don't have it and/or suck using it or keep getting owned with them.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morganga

I still don't know why it is much better than p2ks,
its the same price and p2ks need 100k kills

---

Of course you're gonna die to a bar in upclose battle , bar is 10 damage in perfect shape it takes 5 shots to kill, P2K's is more spam and is suppose to be for PKing , you can easily own a bar with p2ks if you know how to use them.. Standing in front of a bar vs p2ks ofcourse the bar is going to win. Get skill that's all.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myst

You are correct, that is the reason that bar is p2w at the damage output that it is now.

---

Bar shouldn't be nerfed , it should be the same or better reload and have higher clip or something , chemical gun stats should be boosted or remove the effect of running slow whilst spamming it because 200 ec ? Yeah it should be boosted for the way it is currently.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Froz

Hello?? minigun is also $200k
Needs a buff because its the most expensive gun?
Yes i would love to see you try to escape start with no revive and 5 people using this 12 damage extremely fast bar
Its already bad enough yoru just gonna make it more broken

---

Minigun needs a buff , take away one of the damage and take away the knock back and add faster movement while shooting. Pbp owns it easily with just a couple shots.

Still don't see any valid reason to why it should be nerfed or stay.

Look at statistics. There used to be a time when everyone used p2k. After they got nerfed we all went back to using bars. Therefore I think bar should get a slight nerf so the use of p2k and bar is balanced

100 dollars out the window getting bar =(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceFighter

Same lullaby with flamethrower now it is nothing special but common.

Vote NO! — No we can't!


only reason people want bar nerfed is because their spar kd is getting ruined as they lack skill. Surprise Surprise, it is not a legit reason. Spar is for fun...So damage doesn't matter as if it just difference from +1 dmg.

---

Lmao flame? You can iTunes for bar, but flame? We didn't waste 100 ec for a dumb gun, If you can't get ec don't talk about ec items