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Why are noobs able to run through GZ and then go through the back where m4 is at. Then they hide and shoot bullets from up top then run back into m4 where there is no 5 second kill timer. It's really annoying. Either block off the room with the beds to only the gang that holds the base or add a 5 second kill timer so that we can kill the runners.
Yes, agreed.
Good idea.
I like the idea of being able to get there but the 5 second timer would be nice.
It is an achievement spot which there is no 5 second timer to be applied on as taking a screenshot upload might take more time then that and, the challenge is to get trough the base and reach the spot....but it would be unfair to remove it as the base itself is already a large base so it cannot do that much harm to the basers....it shouldn't get to easy right the largest base has to keep some tricks behind
No it's not, the achievement area is the room in gz right before the khorez shop counter (m4 shop).Quote:
Originally Posted by AceFighter
Just add a 5 second timer to that area.
title says it theres a bunch of threads about it more than 90% agree with it something needs to be done. about it if this many people request it. either remove non base holders from getting there or add a pk timmer. u can see who voted btw guys
I think it should be kept as is
Assuming I've got this right,Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake butter
What exactly are you referring to when you say "PK Timer"?
Prevent non-base holders from getting where?
What kind of PK Timer are you suggesting?
What's wrong with the current one?
like the 5 second timmer when u can still kill someone enters a safe zone
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there isnt one thats the problem meph. u know the area where u get m4 behind the counter thats where
I agree with fake.
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Encore entire gang ran behind m4 counter and when we left them be they started attack us from above.
Uhm, why..?Quote:
Originally Posted by CHAMPGRAAL
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He's referring to the timer that allows you to kill someone in a no-pk zone within 5 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meph
My gang Dark Chocolate Delights, has been holding gz all for the past few days, and a gang called encore makes a mission of making there way through the base, and hiding there. They get all their members there, and then attack us from above/behind, taking us off guard.
Why was it disabled in the first place? Not only does this affect basing, but also streakers.
I also agree, there needs to be a timer there, especially for that base. If you won't remove it, then the other option is only the baseholders can be behind the counter.
I don't think it was even disabled, I don't think it's ever been there. Now due to the fact there is no pk timer there, it's being abused.
Gotchya.Quote:
Originally Posted by Collin Rosato Magus
I agree, it should have a five-second timer that penalizes anybody trying to get to hotdog heaven.
Upon exiting the level, they should be in "PK Mode" until they stand still for five seconds.
But while we're talking about it, I've always thought that secondary entrance should be altered.
It's only accessible by those that currently control the base.
This puts raiding gangs at a HUGE disadvantage, because it's half the distance to the "choke point" of this base than the main entrance(the only entrance raiders can access); and that's not even including busting down doors.
If there's going to be a secondary entrance, it should be accessible by everybody.
The controlling gang already has the advantage of door access, they don't need their commute to be cut in half.
I like the fact that it favours the defender. It's basically always been like that and just adds more of a challenge when attacking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meph
I sense ideas coming from Era..hehe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meph
I love that though, I'd thought it would be really good if it was on our server lol.
Yeah, I'm actually one of the people that pushed for it to get added to PC Era.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cudislagne
Back then, raiding gang bases utilized the same skill-set as sparring, so we were actually putting in work to gain those kills.
Nothing was more infuriating than some pansy starting a fight and not being able to finish it, then running off into a No-PK Zone at low HP.
After a while, we thought of the timer that you see on there today.
It would be a step in the right direction to add this to iEra.
Why? Do you PK there and then run into the zone to heal?Quote:
Originally Posted by CHAMPGRAAL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meph
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I don't think the second entrance brought the m4 shop should be accessible by everybody. The owners of Gz, in my opinion, deserve the advantage of being the only ones to access the second entrance,
I have the philosophy that secondary entrances are to add more tactics to basing. I believe everybody should have at least two entry points to the heart of the base. The flaw with only one entry point is that the defending gang only has to focus its resources on one hallway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Collin Rosato Magus
Having two entry points would invite the element of surprise, and force the leaders to distribute their members between the two entry points instead of just spamming one hallway.
I would rather see the rooms stemming from that secondary entrance extended to be about the same distance to the heart as the main entrance, and have doors between them that the raiding gang would have to bust down in order to penetrate.
Perhaps I'm just old school like that.
I just don't understand why they slacked on the tactics when they created iEra's basing system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meph
they added that exact thing to emmies and lets be honest everybody but mael wants it back to normal. the base is fine it has perfect tactical advantages the attackers take the bottom and push its quite fair reasoning how if u push far enough to take the flag u take the base because u can lay gas to slow them and shoot upwards to kill respawners. they just need to add the timmer back there. alls adding an extra entrance will do is promote rushing as it has at emmies.
The thing with GZ is that it takes a more focused attack to take it if large numbers are involved such as all of Gang A try to take it of Gang B. Gang A would have to have a successful first time raid to stop it developing into a war of attrition where they make no progress. If they manage to take it from the raid then it is easier to hold. Most bases such as emines, with the 2 entrances for everyone, end up with the base changing hands many times in quick succession.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meph
There's a wide variety of stuff that should be taken into consideration from Era to Era iPhone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meph
*cough* Mall *cough* Bank *cough* Trading System *cough* player jobs *cough*
I understand and agree with what you're saying. What should happen is keep the m4 shop extrance exclusive to the owners of the base, and create an additional entrance to gz. I think gz is fine as it is now, if the problem with the m4 shop entrance is resolved, but obviously we have contrasting opinions, and adding an additional entrance could be a compromise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meph
As said adding a second entrance will only promote unskilled rushing even if the idea is to promote tactical skill, Emines is a perfect example of this type of ideal and change gone wrong. It is one thing to have the ideal it is another to implement it successfully. Meph himself should know how weak a defense GZ has once the main corridor falls, perhaps when snipers didn't exist this could be thought out in such a way, but for now gangs like iFreeze or other large veteran gangs holding GZ will agree large gang battles in two corridors promote less skill than you may intend with two entrances. Yes you can add two entrances, but we will rush as well if needed which throws calculations out the window and brings in the psycological concept of what is the best method for taking this base.
Just add a timer to the m4 shop if they somehow get through a gangs defense and live kudos to them but they will need to fight for it instead of just freely running and instantly being safe.
Hey, don't get me wrong-- I'm not suggesting that anything about our basing system be changed.
We've come too far in development, and people nowadays have been adapted to the new style of basing.
So regardless of how tactless it is, this is what we're stuck with until there is widespread approval of a better alternative.
To be honest, the extent of "basing" that I do nowadays consists of walking into Gz and PKing people. I have zero interest in the chest, or taking over the base. My prerogative is to go in and kill people. Realistically, I'm more of an inconvenience than a threat to a defending gang, because even if I killed them all, I wouldn't go for their chest. I'm merely raiding the base as if it's 2004.
You guys are actually out there doing the deal, and exercising this new-school basing system, so you're more experienced with it than I am.
That being said, your opinions are more heavily weighted on this matter than my own. I'm just here to toss ideas out there.
Frankly, I'm very turned off by the basing system, because it goes against my philosophy of how this game is supposed to be played. The fact that people have stereotyped guns into the categories "basing" and "sparring" is evidence that it's an entirely different game than what I'm accustomed to. This new-school notion of stereotyping suggests that different play-styles are involved in "basing" than in "sparring", and I'm over here like, "does not compute".
Understand though, I come from a time where raiding/defending bases exercised the same techniques as sparring. In the first eight years of Era PC's development, nobody ever once made a distinction between "Spar guns" and "Basing guns", because, since both atmospheres beckoned the same techniques, we just saw them as guns. It's clear that that is no longer the case, for which I am deeply saddened, because I feel that this generation is missing out on a great experience.
It would also be foolish of me to share my philosophy without mentioning several parameters that are present in today's society that were different back then:
Healing - People couldn't merely heal at the drop of a hat. The few healing items we did have were expensive and limited in supply; if people wanted to heal, they used healing beds, which was offered by each base on the server.
Respawning - People didn't just respawn at the front door. Upon dying, they couldn't just be back in the action in 15 seconds. They respawned at the hospital, had to wait 40 seconds to heal, then walk back to the base. Nowadays, you have a constant flood of people streaming into the base, with no letting up. So I fully understand why you would be turned off by two raider entrances.
Guns - Our guns back then didn't have anywhere near as low a freeze as they do now. When people fired a bullet, they were met with a freeze of about 0.24. So people were more selective of firing their shots. Nowadays, we average at around 0.17; people are more wreckless, and more likely to spam. Especially when they know that they have nothing to lose by dying.
Gas Shells / Grenades - All gas shells, grenades, explosives, etc. had a timer on them. These items were added to stimulate the game, not replace guns. 15 to 30 seconds had to lapse between each grenade thrown by a player, they couldn't get by by merely spamming them.
Hit Timer -Back then, we had a completed hit timer system. Right now, it's only halfway completed. The hit timer was created to benefit both the person shooting the gun, and the person taking the bullet; so it had two parts. The first part was to benefit the person taking the bullet-- Upon getting hit, they'd be invincible for 0.50 seconds. This gave them time to recover from getting hit.
The other part benefited the person firing the shot. Upon getting hit, players also experienced a freeze of about 0.25 seconds. This added more emphasis to not taking a bullet, since it disrupted the player's movement scheme, and downright stopped their spamming in their tracks. While it was only a quarter of a second, this gave the player firing the gun a quarter of a second to reassess the situation, or go for other opponents.
So, say I take a shot; I'd be frozen for 0.25 seconds, but invincible for 0.50 seconds. So while I have 0.25 seconds to recover and reassess the situation, my opponent's also got 0.25 seconds to reassess the situation.
That 0.25 seconds makes a huge difference in 1v4+ situations, and gives the guy being outnumbered a chance to strut his stuff. While it was only a quarter of a second, people were much more careful when in a fight, and it paid to be good. Again-- it required us to use our "sparring" abilities in a base setting.
Right now we're just benefiting the person taking the bullet.
This is where my old-school mentality on basing comes from.
I feel that these systems created a better gaming experience than the one we have here, and that this generation is missing out on it.
After reading that, I went and checked out E-Mines; and I gotta tell ya, that base layout blows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake butter
I don't feel that the issue is the fact that there's several entrances to the "heart of the base", though. The issue is that the base consists of one narrow hallway after another, eliminating any possibility for somebody to apply any dodging ability. The win goes to the gang that can flood the most bullets into these hallways.
Again- My opinions aren't in the interest of the "basing aspect" of the base, because as I told you earlier, the whole system turns me off.
But from the perspective of a PKer that endorses skill-based play, this base layout sucks.
Really, that's the status-quo with most gang base layouts right now. We didn't used to have base layouts that consisted of narrow hallways; they usually utilized the entire level and had stray NPCs in the middle of the room to fill up "negative space" instead of just putting up a wall that divides the room.
It's for this reason that I choose Gz base when I raid.
It's got several open areas for me to strut my stuff(dodge bullets), and the whole base doesn't explode upon capture.
It allows me to do my classic Era-style raiding without restriction.
That is something I whole heartedly agree with quick slotted healing and the removal of the hit timer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meph
Spam is ever so dangerous and generally benefits those who rush or spam on both sides. The pk timer in bases was removed because no one would remove stacked pbp damage. Yes it made other weapons superior to the pbp but ushered a new Era of spam and base combat. Same goes for the spam of heals on both sides. It promotes repeated healing to the point of needing two bar users to take someone spamming medipacts and running around. Gas isn't really a problem with masks, but grenades and throwable items have no delay either. Snipers also deter some strategic positions as they can completely remove cover.
Meph, I laughed when i read "that layout blows." It's so true, there is no room for any elements of skill-based gameplay, due to the vary narrow hall ways. Not to point fingers, but the gang that holds emines the most, Maelstrom, positions gang members in each hall, spamming their bars, making it practically impossible to take the base.
As for hit timers, I have mixed feelings. I personally like the hit timer in bases. It makes more sense that every shot you land on your enemy deals damage. I hate however, when people abuse their power of their bars, and rush someone with a less-powerful gun, knowing they will come out the victor.
In some places, the hit timer must stay; mainly in events, I must say. In CTF, without the hit timer, taking the flag would be impossible. In Lms, last man standing for those of you who don't know the acronyms of events, without a hit timer, the event would be over in heart beat, and players who make teams with others could be betrayed and easily killed, too.
I like the fast-paces gameplay era brings to the table today, but some things, like the OP bar, would be better without.
I full-heartedly support a complete hit-timer system, like the one introduced on PC Era in 2003 that I highlighted above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Collin Rosato Magus
The operative word is complete; as in, it's got both the freeze(to benefit the person firing the shot), and the hit recovery (to benefit the person getting hit).
They worked together to maintain balance in a fight, and discourage spamming.
As I said before, the hit timer on iEra is only halfway complete.
I think they're afraid to add a quarter-second freeze upon being hit in fear of negative player review; it's one of those things that should have came with the rest of the server when iEra was released.
Then people wouldn't know any different; we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Another thing I don't like about iEra's hit timer is that it varies from gun to gun. It was meant to be the same for every bullet on the server.
I understand where they're coming from-- they're trying to make it another "gun stat" to promote gun variability.
However, gun variability should only be within a realm that the gun has reasonable control over.
In regard to the bullet, the only job the gun has is to set the spread which controls the field of possible trajectory, as well as the damage and the timeout between subsequent shots. The control stops there.
From the second the bullet leaves a gun's barrel, these variables have already been determined, and the bullet is no longer a variable subordinate to the gun.
At this point, the bullet is on it's own. Therefore, it should be delivered with consistency; otherwise, players are given a game that feels unstable.
The hit timer should be the same regardless of location or gun, to preserve this consistency.
"Stacked Damage", in my opinion, is one of the worst ideas to come to the server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ventus
I think PBP users and the victims alike would prefer that the gun did 8 damage, not stacked.
It's like they hired Jimmy Newtron for a day, and trusted every "brain blast" he came up with.
not to be rude these are good post but please stay on topic becuase id really like this. i like the ideas u guys are throughing around meph perhaps make another thread to keep this one on topic
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and as we can clearly see something needs to be done guys i made the poll part of this a day ago and its already got this much feedback to change it by adding a timmer there.
My sincerest apologies,Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake butter
By the nature of these forums, I do tend to ramble on topics and give explicit details that lead the topic astray.
I always try to give as much of a vivid description as possible, so that people know without the shadow of a doubt where I stand.
Chris Zephlyn keeps joking around that he's going to publish a book:
"The ramblings of Meph"
Back on topic:
I think there should be a 5-second timer added.
After being attacked, the timer starts.
Either five seconds that the player has to stand still before leaving the PK Zone,
or five seconds that they have to stand still in a Non-PK Zone in before they are invulnerable to attack.
The only other logical solution would be to make the M4 shop a PK-Zone.
make m4 shop pk zone yes
Whats wrong with that area? I should agree to keep as it is. Why???
1st- Because that's their strategy.
2nd- Maybe your just a noobs that can't fight those attackers coming from there like Encore.
3rd-If you would remove the access from basers only at the counter, its just like a second entrance to the base.
@1 they want it to have a pk timer so people can't just run there and hide at first without getting damage. It's irritating not being able to kill someone when they've already been damaged because they run into a safezone in a base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolverine8888
@2 I'm pretty sure that's not true, seeing how you can get rushed pretty easy at that spot. Especially with a high amount of those OP guns - yes I said OP.
@3 the only reason the counter is accessible to baseholders in the first place, is because the base is already so big, it would be hard for anyone to keep if they had to go all the way to the entrance and back to the flag. Well, in my opinion anyways. Technically it wouldn't be a second entrance since only the baseholders could use it to get back to their flag, and that's the only one they would be using.
It's just really annoying running after someone who is on the brink of death to a no pk area in a BASE. It doesn't make any sense.
so when can we expect a change to happen?
Whenever the right person notices, I hate to admit it, but the people who can make change don't always look at these. Not that they don't but if they do it takes alot of support and nudging to get it done.