gun balance..

so why are some guns way overpowered? it feels to me that they made is powerful to have people buy gralats to purchase them..

i dont understand why a machine gun with fast fire rate has atleast triple attack power of a shotgun.

i get that shotguns have ones that stack damage but overall it still feels weak and i see no reason for them to be used when you got machine guns shooting literally in a sniper range wiping out anything in its path.

you have to be closer for the stack damage anyway don't you? since it spreads, closer meaning you'll eat way more shots from a machine gun so its like a lose & lose situation for a shotgun user to fight a shipka,bar,minigun user (unless the machine gun user is horrible or something)

I haven't seen many shotgun users but hell i see so many shipka, bar, minigun and nothing else.. shows you how unbalanced these guns are..

even with lower damage, their firing speed has the potential to kill anything so i dont know why they haven't reduced it yet..

im sure many of you would disagree on this because you guys paid alot for your guns but we need to acknowledge that it's not balanced if people are using only two or three of the guns in the whole server and having random people wipe the floor with an overpowered gun.

i see so many newbies running around picking trash dying from random machine gun bullets from miles away in just 5-6 shots, it's really ridiculous.

im positive people will try defending the top three guns, but feel free to post your opinion.. i wonder if there are actually people here that will not defend it ~_~

Welcome to the wonderful world of BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun/Flamthrower spammers.

Master starter pistols like recurvez did, After all.. no gun is a bad gun.

Welcome to Pay2win... In all honesty most of 75k kills came from from m16 before the nerf.

Well the damage is done and there's nothing we can really do about it unless you delete all the guns and just give everyone a Sten and M4. If you want balance go to classic where everyone has two weapons.

I miss the m16 before nerf. #unnerfit

reduce damage of BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun by -2 (not sure if this will be enough tbh)
reduce bullet flying speed of BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun (could they adjust the speed of bullets?)
reduce maximum range of BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun, it makes no sense that such a powerful and spammy weapon has a range of a sniper rifle.. if anything it shouldn't even be strong as a sniper but it is if im not wrong..

implent a penalty to make it fair for non-BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun users (atleast the guns that are nearly as expensive but not as effective)

an idea for the penalty can be upgrades and vip no longer increasing its damage by 1 for those top guns.. that's enough of a penalty (it's already overpowered without upgrades.. i just can't believe they set the damage so high!)

i really hope they wake up and balance those top guns soon, it's been long enough..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ciel

reduce damage of BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun by -2 (not sure if this will be enough tbh)
reduce bullet flying speed of BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun (could they adjust the speed of bullets?)
reduce maximum range of BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun, it makes no sense that such a powerful and spammy weapon has a range of a sniper rifle.. if anything it shouldn't even be strong as a sniper but it is if im not wrong..

implent a penalty to make it fair for non-BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun users (atleast the guns that are nearly as expensive but not as effective)

an idea for the penalty can be upgrades and vip no longer increasing its damage by 1 for those top guns.. that's enough of a penalty (it's already overpowered without upgrades.. i just can't believe they set the damage so high!)

i really hope they wake up and balance those top guns soon, it's been long enough..

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Same dude, but it's not gonna happen soon.

To make all guns even in a way, they should made it between a set damage of 6-8.
Any lower than 6 is underpowered, and higher than 8 is overpowered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ciel

reduce damage of BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun by -2 (not sure if this will be enough tbh)
reduce bullet flying speed of BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun (could they adjust the speed of bullets?)
reduce maximum range of BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun, it makes no sense that such a powerful and spammy weapon has a range of a sniper rifle.. if anything it shouldn't even be strong as a sniper but it is if im not wrong..

implent a penalty to make it fair for non-BAR/Shipka/Ghost M4/Minigun users (atleast the guns that are nearly as expensive but not as effective)

an idea for the penalty can be upgrades and vip no longer increasing its damage by 1 for those top guns.. that's enough of a penalty (it's already overpowered without upgrades.. i just can't believe they set the damage so high!)

i really hope they wake up and balance those top guns soon, it's been long enough..

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Ummm no, it shouldn't be nerfed. That's why it cost so much. I'm tired of people like you keep on complaining.

This has been a long standing problem but we're way past the point of having an easy fix. If said guns were properly balanced near their release dates then it would have been fine. But, I'd date this problem to at least the release of the BAR, maybe earlier but I'm not that old of an iEra player (Summer 2012). At its initial release, there was outcry of it being too overpowered. But, it was never properly balanced, possibly due to the moral hazard of nerfing something someone spent so much money on. Therefore, people accepted that the BAR at its then-current state and bought them. Years later, they're everywhere on the server as it is today.

Also, there's the problem of slowly lowering standards. It's a path a lot of Pay-to-Win games go down. Instead of taking the time to slowly create a gun with properly balanced stats, they just lower the game's standards even more and make a stronger gun at a high price just to take money out of many peoples' pockets. The most prominent example of today's gun standard I'd say is the M4 versus the Default Rifle, for some reason the Default Rifle which was released many years after the M4 is better in most, if not all, aspects and yet 5k cheaper than the M4. That's why most of the popular guns today are the ones released with in the past year (i.e. GM4, Minigun, Sniper Rifles). It's been noted before that guns are released at an alarming rate with very little care for balancing and creating something unique, many things are just restats of things we already have (again, i.e. Sniper Rifles, GM4, Default Rifle, etc.). It makes some groan with the thought of "oh boy another sniper rifle...." From a business point of view it's very understandable. It's a quick and easy way to get money. But, in the long run it can be very damaging as it breaks the core of the gameplay and closes wallets as people just go straight for the "best gun" instead of buying many properly balanced guns in a search for the one best for them.

That being said, it's not easy to rebalance guns today. Since there are already so many on the market, it'd be difficult to balance them all. We can't just single out the best guns and nerf them. If that happens, the overall problem would still persist as players would just go to the next best thing, a little weaker than before but still overpowered in comparison to prior standards. It would have little affect on making the game easier for newcomers.

A month ago, a universal nerf of +0.04 freeze was suggested to punish spamming. Sadly, there was a bug that affected fire rates and this nerf did not last long. Meph, previous gun admin and one of the most experienced players of Era, has noted that adjusting bullet velocity/speed has been attempted before but has never worked out. Not sure if the same was done for bullet range, but it's likely. The current best solution, other than the freeze nerf, is to increase player health to 100 and rebalance all the gun damage values that way.

-credit to Meph for most of these arguments, I just reiterated them (didn't want to dig up quotes)

TTK(Time to kill) would be very different if the health bar raised to 100.

i don't think hp increase would be a good idea, just need those top guns balanced. its boring how people die without a fight

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casshern Sins

Ummm no, it shouldn't be nerfed. That's why it cost so much. I'm tired of people like you keep on complaining.

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costs doesn't make it fair enough to able to kill people in just a couple shots, that's a selfish thought. people like you make the developers focus on pay2win.. you should start thinking about the balance as a whole instead of complaining not to nerf what's broken because you used alot of money on them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ciel

i don't think hp increase would be a good idea, just need those top guns balanced. its boring how people die without a fight



costs doesn't make it fair enough to able to kill people in just a couple shots, that's a selfish thought. people like you make the developers focus on pay2win.. you should start thinking about the balance as a whole instead of complaining not to nerf what's broken because you used alot of money on them.

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All games are pay2win this concept has finally found its way to console systems now... Look at CoD series until Ghost you could earn every gun in game and its upgrades now you have to buy each and every exspansion to own every gun... Basicly the direction of gaming is going that they sell us half finished games for 60 bucks then make us pay for additional 10-15 bucks per exspansion to get the rest of there game.....

Welcome to 2014.

Whenever you release an item into the public, it NEEDS to be tested.. They should give 50-100 users the experimental gun for an hour or so, and see if it overpowers other guns. If it does, then you can just remove it, and there's no problems. When you have people paying money for a gun, there's no turning back. That's why real product manufacturers have people test their products before they are released to the general public. That would play out quite nicely in this case. GAs have to be more careful. If they nerf weapons after purchase, it's exactly the same as scamming in my book.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ciel

i don't think hp increase would be a good idea, just need those top guns balanced. its boring how people die without a fight



costs doesn't make it fair enough to able to kill people in just a couple shots, that's a selfish thought. people like you make the developers focus on pay2win.. you should start thinking about the balance as a whole instead of complaining not to nerf what's broken because you used alot of money on them.

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A couple of shots? Pretty sure the fastest you can kill someone is 5 shots with bar or sniper... Also guns cost more for a reason... Balance doesn't mean all guns should be equal. If a gun cost more it SHOULD be better. With your logic 10 ec items should be equal to 100 ec items. Gtfo.

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Originally Posted by jaxwashere

A couple of shots? Pretty sure the fastest you can kill someone is 5 shots with bar or sniper... Also guns cost more for a reason... Balance doesn't mean all guns should be equal. If a gun cost more it SHOULD be better. With your logic 10 ec items should be equal to 100 ec items. Gtfo.

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Lmao EC items should be worth alot less..... Anyone can AFK all day.. Just takes a little time... with a average of 3 EC per day it will only take you 34 days to get anything you want from the shop ;)

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Originally Posted by W R A T H

Lmao EC items should be worth alot less..... Anyone can AFK all day.. Just takes a little time... with a average of 3 EC per day it will only take you 34 days to get anything you want from the shop ;)

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I agree... I was using that as an example that an items cost should reflect it's strength/quality.....

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Originally Posted by jaxwashere

I agree... I was using that as an example that an items cost should reflect it's strength/quality.....

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I'm not a fan of the EC shop considering how easy it is to obtain anything.... I dont mind really I rarely see a Saber in a Base... Only flamers i see are easily taken down because yes they may have 5k+ hours but only 20k kills..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by W R A T H

All games are pay2win this concept has finally found its way to console systems now... Look at CoD series until Ghost you could earn every gun in game and its upgrades now you have to buy each and every exspansion to own every gun... Basicly the direction of gaming is going that they sell us half finished games for 60 bucks then make us pay for additional 10-15 bucks per exspansion to get the rest of there game.....

Welcome to 2014.

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Amen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaxwashere

A couple of shots? Pretty sure the fastest you can kill someone is 5 shots with bar or sniper... Also guns cost more for a reason... Balance doesn't mean all guns should be equal. If a gun cost more it SHOULD be better. With your logic 10 ec items should be equal to 100 ec items. Gtfo.

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do you even check the event shop at all? 20 ec hunter knife, kiwi knife has same damage as a lightsaber 100 ec except lightsaber has a cool block effect, the thing is there isn't much damage difference with event items like we do with gralat guns, great comparison fool

"just because it costs more doesn't mean few guns should demolish the rest of the guns" that's not balance, yes it can be better at other things, a rapid gun shouldn't have such high damage even if it's expensive.

sure lets just release a 400k gun that does 3 more damage than bar since "it costs more, it should be better" it costs more so lets just let everyone die without any skill involved, good job. machine guns are too powerful for their rate of fire. as soon as people leave pk zone they either get 10 hp left from full or die because of those random sniping of machine guns, but people are too busy complaining that they used alot of money when they're meant to use alot of money on a game to begin with.. lol...

You seem a little upset buddy. Also you don't seem to understand that damage is not the only factor that goes into making a weapon. All your post you talk about damage nerfs. A weapons rate of fire, freeze, sleep etc determine its value. Not just damage. Also if you can't survive in a pk area it shows your lack of skill. Nerfing all top tier weapons would also be an ignorant business decision. Regardless if you accept it or not the minute grallets became purchasable the game became p2w. Guns like m4 and better do not need another nerf most of the community would agree. You
name call all you want out of anger I won't stoop to your level Btw.

Stop crying they already nerfed the bar, guns are suppose to be better if they cost more what you're suggesting is dumb, making all guns the same? Then what would be the point in buying anything else. If you want a non p2w game go play angry birds

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Originally Posted by Renegade

Stop crying they already nerfed the bar, guns are suppose to be better if they cost more what you're suggesting is dumb, making all guns the same? Then what would be the point in buying anything else. If you want a non p2w game go play angry birds

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This does basically sum up the situation.

Changing the damage of guns would be a stupid move. Guns are supposed to be different from each other and the price ranges represent that. Once again I shall say that the system needs changing before the guns do.

I wanted to ignore this thread due to it's title but after reading the first few posts, I need to get your facts right.

Gun upgrades do NOT improve gun stability, it just increases it's damage.
VIPs do NOT increase all guns you have by additional of +1, we have already discussed about this and it was never made to do that.

Stacking of guns damage is one way to make the lowered damage guns to be better in combat killing.
PBP was 8 damage per bullet in past and didn't had stack, after it was added and damage lower to 4, the gun seems more better than 8 damage due to stack.
You can NOT do anything about gun bullet speed, their not modified as part of Gun Statics. Only ganis can make them look slower in-game.

EC items doesn't need an increase in damage just because it cost more than others.
All melees has a damage of up to 9 and below only, the focus is on the gani it has. Speed increases the attack, damage won't affect much on it.
I'm actually liking the BAR as it is now, makes it less-spammy in sparring and PKing.
The sleep on every gun is also very helpful by 50%, how guns were able to just shoot after having to reload at it's time was an unexpected experience for many.

Damage on guns won't be reduced unless it was really needed to. You don't have the authorities to command the Gun Admins on how they do their work or what should be changed. If a massive of players is unhappy, that's their problem because the ones who always complain about guns being nerfed are the ones who suck at skilled-base games.

I can assure you that ALL items in the game was tested umpteen of times before releasing it into shops. You're typically saying that the guns weren't even tested by someone yet and was put into a shop immediately to please the players. The BAR existed since 2010(iEra ver) and was always the same up till 2013. The change had a great impact to reduce BAR spammers/users, please provide a more better reason(s) for the thread title and posts.

It's funny, coming from someone who also neglects about how each gun works it own way amuses me.
You know what? I'm dumbfounded by it, you so call proclaim there are so many P2W players on the game.
I can ensure you're also one of them who packs for a gun and gets easily mad cause he/she wasted a fortune on what they bought..

Want to defeat a player who spams guns just like what you wrote? Then get some skills. Stop with the rants on gun nerfs/buff, first a buff was no pleasing enough, next a nerf is even worser.
What do you people expect? I have nothing more to include in this thread, because the reasons are lying around on this forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XSTARX

I wanted to ignore this thread due to it's title but after reading the first few posts, I need to get your facts right.

Gun upgrades do NOT improve gun stability, it just increases it's damage.
VIPs do NOT increase all guns you have by additional of +1, we have already discussed about this and it was never made to do that.

Stacking of guns damage is one way to make the lowered damage guns to be better in combat killing.
PBP was 8 damage per bullet in past and didn't had stack, after it was added and damage lower to 4, the gun seems more better than 8 damage due to stack.
You can NOT do anything about gun bullet speed, their not modified as part of Gun Statics. Only ganis can make them look slower in-game.

EC items doesn't need an increase in damage just because it cost more than others.
All melees has a damage of up to 9 and below only, the focus is on the gani it has. Speed increases the attack, damage won't affect much on it.
I'm actually liking the BAR as it is now, makes it less-spammy in sparring and PKing.
The sleep on every gun is also very helpful by 50%, how guns were able to just shoot after having to reload at it's time was an unexpected experience for many.

Damage on guns won't be reduced unless it was really needed to. You don't have the authorities to command the Gun Admins on how they do their work or what should be changed. If a massive of players is unhappy, that's their problem because the ones who always complain about guns being nerfed are the ones who suck at skilled-base games.

I can assure you that ALL items in the game was tested umpteen of times before releasing it into shops. You're typically saying that the guns weren't even tested by someone yet and was put into a shop immediately to please the players. The BAR existed since 2010(iEra ver) and was always the same up till 2013. The change had a great impact to reduce BAR spammers/users, please provide a more better reason(s) for the thread title and posts.

It's funny, coming from someone who also neglects about how each gun works it own way amuses me.
You know what? I'm dumbfounded by it, you so call proclaim there are so many P2W players on the game.
I can ensure you're also one of them who packs for a gun and gets easily mad cause he/she wasted a fortune on what they bought..

Want to defeat a player who spams guns just like what you wrote? Then get some skills. Stop with the rants on gun nerfs/buff, first a buff was no pleasing enough, next a nerf is even worser.
What do you people expect? I have nothing more to include in this thread, because the reasons are lying around on this forum.

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+10

reducing damage of bar etc massively and allowing it to stack sounds like a great idea, so you wont kill people in only 5 hits. it will also be unique in its own way. people don't seem to understand that im saying with that ridiculous rate of fire it shouldn't be allowed to deal 7-8 damage, might as well let snipers shoot at machine gun speed since using sniper isn't even worth it.

kind of silly how people complain that bar got nerfed, oh yeah clip nerf when damage was the problem, lets allow people to still die in 5 hits and just let them reload more after 3 kills etc, such balance :cool:

Killing in 5 shots isn't a problem. Unless you are dreadful at dodging then BAR is not OP. You make it sound like every 5 shots from a BAR kills someone when in fact that generally isn't the case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ciel

reducing damage of bar etc massively and allowing it to stack sounds like a great idea, so you wont kill people in only 5 hits. it will also be unique in its own way. people don't seem to understand that im saying with that ridiculous rate of fire it shouldn't be allowed to deal 7-8 damage, might as well let snipers shoot at machine gun speed since using sniper isn't even worth it.

kind of silly how people complain that bar got nerfed, oh yeah clip nerf when damage was the problem, lets allow people to still die in 5 hits and just let them reload more after 3 kills etc, such balance :cool:

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The bar can't kill in five hits because of the last nerf. Yes it's 10 damage. But because of nerf (not every bullet registers dmg) on auto it takes 7-9 hits. Only way to kill in five hits is single shot and if you can't dodge that maybe angry birds is a better game for you. Bar is not op if anything it needs a buff.

I think you're missing the point about Guns and their stats.
You've never even gotten the initiative to check how PKing works, all you people do is complain about gun nerfs and how they suck in PK areas or Spar.

The BAR and other guns don't 100% kills a player in PK areas and some other areas within that few shots.
All bullets don't register unless you're in a BASE or SPAR. Imagine how life would be if PK areas had hit timer disabled, BAR users will cause chaos by getting kills too easily on a player.
Guns such as flamethrower/minigun/pbp got that stack damage because they have low bullet damage than other guns.
Thus, it's more reasonable to make them spammy and stack.

well im done, i expected the bar/shipka/minigun users to complain, thread is going no where because of selfish people thinking "oh i spent so much on it so it's fair to do this damage" im talking about gun balance and people here are like "SAY NO FOR BALANCE, I WANT TO KILL PEOPLE WITHOUT THINKING" shotguns and snipers stand no chance, it must be why everyone holds atleast all of those guns :cool:

wait did i actually see someone say this game takes skill, let me get this straight skill = using bar,minigun,shipka etc and massacre random new players with trashpick and no weapon.. sounds about right.

since iera is such a "skill based game" you guys must all have great skill right, please prove them on pc graal zodiac, i doubt any of you could stand a chance. http://graalonline.net/playerworlds/downloads/