Printable View
I for one bought the gun due to the stats shown no where did it say it was prone to stat changes.
I want a refund, if we all hit our banking institutions at the same time, and report online item was not purchased as promised. We got a class action ?
correct me if im wrong here.
Before you say that, Read up on their heck of a long user agreement. (i sure didnt , but the gist is probably the same as the others) and im not sure anyone would care to lawsuit over a change in a items statistics, after you bought it In A Game.Quote:
Originally Posted by GraalEranoob
thanks for letting me know about the tos, i did not feel like reading it, i just wanted to post my concern, Bitzsam is a bad guy <quote> Donald Trump <quote>
Glad to help ^ ^
BAR is one of the best guns to buy. C'mon, it got nerfed pretty bad, but still one of the best. I just don't have it yet because it's expensive and I don't wanna waste my money on iTunes.
You can get beaten by a m4 user :(Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmY1809
You can beat almost any gun with an m4(or any gun tbh). It's just about skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ4
Right-on And i see your back to postingQuote:
Originally Posted by JYGSHELBY
Nah, these are probably gonna be last posts on here until 2018.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasonForEc
Maybe u make some sense with the changes because when I buy a product, it is expected that it stays in the condition when I bought it. If i bought a house, I expect my house to look as it is when I bought it; a two storey house won't turn to a single story one after 2 years, right? So similarly, it won't make sense for a gun to be changed of its stats after it has been purchased. I definitely agree on this customer expectation.Quote:
Originally Posted by GraalEranoob
However, there is a rising number of players owning the guns and the admins have to undergo some forms of moderation to preserve the fair gameplay environment.
I know it is awful that things have to turn out like that, but here's a compromise I'd suggest. The guns admin keep the stats of the bar gun bought before a certain date (preferably prior to the change in stats) the same, but the bar guns bought after that date will have the new stats and will cost slightly cheaper.
I find this compromise a much better way to please both the players and to fulfil the needs to moderate the environment.
Sent from my A37f using Tapatalk
Many people are forgetting this is an on going game. Meaning there is no sequel. If you want guns to keep being added to the game, stats have to be changed. You can't have 100 guns in the game and expect that stats of older guns aren't changed to maintain balance. Era is not the same game as it was 6 years ago when guns like the BAR were released.
Games part of a series, eg COD/ BATTLEFIELD only last for about a year until the next version comes out where the guns are all completely different in terms of stats, effectively being a rebalance of the games weapon system- eg, the new COD WW2 is effectively the same as the last COD game in terms of gunplay, however weapon balance in WW2 was redone to slow down the TTK (need more bullets to kill people) which is classified as a fairly significant rebalance.
The Destiny series is a good example, looking from Destiny 1 to Destiny 2, Destiny 2 contains almost all the elements of the first game, but they have been completely rehauled/ 'nerfed' down from their Destiny 1 state so that the game would be more balanced.
Era doesn't have the luxury of doing that as there is no Era 2, so balancing changes are done when there is a need. Not only that, because Era is such a long lasting game there have been multiple people in the balancing position, each with different perspectives.
BAR was an overly powerful gun. Significantly more than it needed to be. Back when the BAR was released, it was very early for era, and there weren't that many guns available, especially any guns anywhere near the BARs price point. Meaning there were no comparisons to really make when making the BAR, so the stats were more or less blindly given. Not only that but considering there weren't really any expensive guns, I don't think it was expected that many people would even buy the BAR so it having strong stats wasn't as much of an issue, because only a handful of people really owned it. Flash forward to now, the vast majority of players who actively PK own the BAR. Meaning it's now seen everywhere which is why changes need to be made, because the PK environment now, is not the same as it was when it was released.
When you bought the BAR you were paying for the most effective store available weapon, and that hasn't changed. BAR wasn't the only gun nerfed during the rebalances, many other guns were aswell to ensure that the BAR remained worth its price, by remaining the most effective gun. You might not be able to do as well with it as before because the stats themselves are toned down, but its actual performance in comparison to other guns still remains. Unfortunately because the playerbase is so young, it's very hard for them to understand that. Go look at the communities of other balance heavy games that have an older audience (eg overwatch/csgo/cod/ heroes and generals etc) and you will generally see that the majority are FOR balance and nerfs to ensure the game is fair
The point of the nerf was to maintain balance, Buying your way to victory is an awful business practice in games, just look at EA's battlefront 2. If you lose to an M4 user then learn how to use the gun skillfully instead of relying on the weapons stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ4
Yep. It isn't the gun fault it's just how you maintain it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz Canavi
Alright I get it. But the best store available weapon is subjective. There were many new guns released and these guns par with the bar in terms of their firepower. Hence it wouldn't be justified to keep bar at the same price as before because the demand for it has been balanced out by the demand for other similarly powerful weapons (that may be cheaper).Quote:
Originally Posted by BiTzSam
I still think the compromise I suggested before would help to satisfy both the players and the need to moderate the guns.
Sent from my A37f using Tapatalk
I kinda agree with Lyk on this.
I don't know anyone in the world who can tell me looking at the stats & say a gun is worth precisely $200k.
Especially when you compare it to other guns.
Such minor improvements for BAR should probably be worth at most 100-150k at most.
Even less if you're talking about GM4.
Don't get me wrong these guns are probably kind of the best but price wise they are hugely over priced.
Like for example the difference between FAL OSW & M4.
These guns are very similar & it only cost 10k for the improvements.
Why should a similar level of improvements be worth 3 times more for GM4?
BAR & GM4 are arguably still the best guns but it definitely should NOT be priced so much comparing it to the $55k-70k guns.
- - - Updated - - -
Name - FAL OSW price: $65k
Freeze - 0.17
Firerate - 0.315
Spread - 0.1
Clip - 20
Reload - 0.2
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N
Name - M4 cost: $55k
Freeze - 0.1945
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.1
Clip - 16
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N
For FAL OSW to have 0.0245 less freeze, 4 more clip & 0.1 faster reload it cost a mere 10k more to improve from M4.
- - - Updated - - -
Name - FAL OSW price: $65k
Freeze - 0.17
Firerate - 0.315
Spread - 0.1
Clip - 20
Reload - 0.2
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N
Name - Ghost M4 price : $187k
Freeze - 0.145
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.065
Clip - 21
Reload - 0.55
Bullets - 1
Auto - N | Y
Stacked - N
For GM4 to have 0.025 less freeze, 0.015 faster firerate it cost a whopping $122k more to improve from FAL OSW!
Usually the guns are priced in order to moderate demand. With the new Nerf the demand should drop and so should the price.
I'm for changing the stats, but I think this shouldn't be done without changing to price.
Sent from my A37f using Tapatalk
Reducing the price isn't a reasonable expectation considering everyone else who bought it for the full price would feel entitled to having the amount it was reduced by refunded to them. The price dictates the weapons hierarchy, even if it's by a little amount, it's still better, therefore worth more. Every weapon would have to be repriced if this was even a possibility to happen, and that just isn't going to happen as the game is primarily a businessQuote:
Originally Posted by LYK08
& rightly so my friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiTzSam
Back then the stats were reflective of their price.
Right now they are not.
They are still better just not to the extent at which they are currently priced at.
- - - Updated - - -
Heres the drift I'm getting from Bitzsam.
Back then the prices were reflective of their stats.
This was before Bitzsam was the Gun Admin.
After Bitzsam became the Gun Admin he thought this was a bad idea.
He figured that maybe the reason people aren't basing, sparring & pking is because they can't afford to buy guns good enough to compete.
Therefore, he decided to nerf all the Top guns.
& Even though he would love to refund people their money he can't because Graal doesn't do refunds.
He thought having weapons priced at $200k was a mistake to begin with but theres nothing he can do about that.
So, the only thing he can do is maintain their hierarchy because he can't give refunds.
How are prices of guns not reflective of their respective statistics? Just because the BAR was balanced does not make it not good. Simply put, the BAR was overpowered. There were a few indicators, but the primary one was that the BAR was the obvious weapon of choice. When it’s so painstakingly clear to a player that there is such an obvious choice for a weapon, it is a sign that it’s too good/overpowered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald
On a side note, when I say “overpowered,” I’m referring to what ‘overpowered’ by definition means. Contrary to the Era colloquialism, ‘overpowered’ means something is too good when taking into consideration its cost. Like Bitzsam has mentioned numerous times, the BAR’s statistics- for quite a long time- had never been altered to accommodate the price change of the BAR(for those of you that don’t know the BAR once cost 250k). The BAR is still a fantastic gun, but now it is more balanced.
As for “the nerf,” Gun variety is now actually a thing, and it makes basing and sparring for more interesting, and skill/personal-preference oriented, instead of an environment where there is one obvious weapon choice. That’s a definite improvement.
The BAR was supposed to be the most effective store bought gun in the game as bitzsam said, and it still is to an a extent, a very small extent. It isn’t worth the 150k more than an m4 is anymore is all. Most guns under 100k can easily compete with a bar now, defeating the point of buying it for so much more for such little improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Collin.
I mean, from my compromise I suggested, the guns before nerf will be sold to the players at the old price and their guns stats will not change. After the nerf, guns bought from that day on will be sold at a lower price - and of course its stats will be different from the gun before it was nerfed.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiTzSam
I am not saying that after nerfing all guns of one type that the price is lowered. This will definitely cause players to demand a refund for the excess they paid when they bought it.
Sorry, you contradict yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by chant
The BAR, while subjective, is still the “most effective” store-bought gun. But it’s no longer the obvious weapon of choice in every single encounter, and that’s something all players should appreciate.
Actually, the valuation of guns are not just because of its stats. The demand for it plays a big part than its stats. You ask that there is no way a certain statistics can be worth a certain price and this valuation may be subjective. Its true, to some extent it is subjective that a gun has to cost this certain amount.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald
But the other factor is that the gun is highly sought after and Era cannot possibly have everyone owning a BAR gun easily since it has seemingly good stats. So a solution to moderate this is to set it at a high price. Its demand that also determine the gun's worth.
Thats why in auctions the items sold can cost up to millions, because these items are in high demand and only the richest will be able to afford them. Same for the bar gun. You were right that the prices were not totally reflective of the stats - because the demand plays a part in its pricing as well, not just stats.
Bitzsam was reasonable to nerf the guns, but the prices of the guns ought not to remain the same, in my view. Perhaps lowering the nerfed bar prices such that it is lower than 200k but slightly higher than the next best gun would help (as is suggested in my compromise).
The next 'best gun' is 13k less than the bar, hardly seems worth the disrupt to lower the BARs price by 10k, especially when it could be argued that BARs increased availability of skins, and access to PK rewards skins which is exclusive to only a handful of guns would be worth that 13k difference anyway, despite the better statsQuote:
Originally Posted by LYK08
How about adding something on bar, like a knife or u can put it in your back? or making it rare since its old?
You can't make it rare anymore, to many people have it already. More then half of the community has it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Romejhon
But players would appreciate it more if someone removed it from the shop. U know, people will only appreciate the importance of a thing when its gone.
That'll only get anyone who doesn't have a bar madQuote:
Originally Posted by Romejhon
Its better for em to buy it now, cause most of the players says that *Dont buy bar, its pre. S*** now.*.
how will that hurt anyone? It certainly isn't hurting administration.