Incentive ideas?

NOTE:
Please don't respond if this is something you don't want to take seriously (aka spam and pointless comments). The people which this targets won't take it seriously if the people who are trying to help don't either. And PLEASE, read ALL OF IT before responding. (please @ali @marg)


So, people on here and in the game are constantly complaining about how toxic the community is on Era. Story time real quick.

Just about 30 seconds ago, as I currently sit online, someone commented on my status. My status reads as follows:

 Spoiler

This game has people of all different cultures, beliefs, and religions. Respect that, watch what you say. They're not pansies, you're just insensitive.

I get someone who pms me with their opinion of the matter, which I respect. He then proceeds to suggest that words mean nothing to him, so therefore they shouldn't offend any other person. Then proceeds to call me the f-slur. And then proceeds to say if someone doesn't like what another person says, they can "go home, and get acquainted with a rope, stool, and a high hanging rod."

The fact that someone thinks it is okay to say that is horrifying, but people are too numb to it at this point to realize it. The thing is, as he put it, "there's a fine line between caring about someone and tending to their every whim". That's very true. Respecting someone's values and not completely harassing them verbally, which is what I'm talking about in my status, is caring about someone, NOT "tending to their every whim".

That got my gears chugging (obviously, because here I am shoving an essay down everybody's throats again). You can't change everybody. He, obviously, is stuck with this, and I respect his opinion.
...
However, some just need to see the other point of view in order to turn a new leaf. We have to keep in mind how diverse this game base is; you may think cursing is okay, your household may too, your city may too. You may be in the LGBTQ community and think the f-slur is okay, but others may not. If something is obviously meant for insult, if something is obviously offensive, it doesn't matter how you take it when you say it to another person. They may be in a religion where cursing is forbidden, a culture where slurs are viewed as insulting.

Anyways, back to the point of this thread: the Era community is awful.
There's some gems within it, that I've been blessed to know. But there's a good amount who are either insensitive, harassing, or just... angry (?).

I'm not saying it for myself, and I know some people are more sensitive than others. An example? When being called a noob sends you into a spiral.

What I'm describing is offensive things such as racism, cursing other players out (direct cursing, not vulgarity used in jokes, sentences, or not directed towards somebody), and slurs. There's too many who consider this okay, and that's on them, but they don't have to spread it and harm another person in a way they don't understand. I think this is the root of a lot of the toxicity in Era, and if we find a way to prevent it, then it will eventually be relieved, one way or another.

I made this thread to try and gather opinions, other sides, and ideas for somehow finding a way to make the game's community less toxic.

And keep in mind the game isn't a classroom full of kindergartners, but a vast majority of these players are teenagers and up to their mid 20's.

(And don't throw the "It's my right to say what I want!" argument at me; that right, like ALL rights, comes with limits. When you abuse your right of speech to abuse or harass another, it's not longer "your right". You're limiting another person's freedoms and rights in doing so, and making them feel like less than. That's a choice, but not "your right".)

And also, note, I already know "that's what PRs are here for!", but obviously that isn't enough; there needs to be more. If it's a problem, then you need to find a way to fix it, and if that's not the fix, we need to find another. PRs are fine as is, but obviously we need more help. My goal isn't to change other people's opinions, but to make sure they don't spread it in flat out offensive and insulting ways.

Thanks to any and all that read this and try to think of an idea! If I'm wrong in any way, please, let me know. I'm not perfect, I'm learning too, and if I'm wrong in any way I should be called out.

110% agreed. The one idea to improve this rn is heavier jail times and after the jail like some small amount of times your account is just reset or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kaz210

110% agreed. The one idea to improve this rn is heavier jail times and after the jail like some small amount of times your account is just reset or something.

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I think the only problem with that is it normally adds fuel to the fire. Many times as a staff have I punished people and they turn around with threats. I think that may, technically, stop them from being able to add to the community for an amount of time, but I'm not certain it fixes anything. But it could lead to something. Thank you for sharing.

I couldn't have proven it better, I strongly agree that the community is awful, though I have a hard time figuring out how to make everyone open-minded.

Not much options to use for reducing the amount of toxicity from the community but the only thing we can do is simply check the history of players and banning. Most messages are from the public chat so they can avoid the pm history check from prs so there isn’t much they can do. Censoring more words would help make the community less toxic as well.

It?s just a game, stop being a crybaby. They don?t actually mean it because they?re trolls.

Oh man toxicity is great. Not really. So far after the 3k+ hours and time span of 8 years that I've been playing graal, these past 3 years have been the worst 3 years I've played on graal because of toxicity. Usually I could walk around and actually have conversations with people about certain things like ingame content. Now I find these people who act as if they dont need people talking to them and decide to just start flipping on anyone who tries to for the fun of it.
Also I used to get PMs from people asking how to do certain things ingame and I'd answer them and get a nice thank you and if I didnt know it they would be like darn, or something and move on to the next person. Nowadays when I answer help PMs they just start complaining about how I told them the tip or just reply with "k" and go quiet. Not really toxic just annoying in general since I just took the time to reply to your pm and all you have to say is "k". Then i get these ones who are vulgar to me because i ignored their pm while i was afk. It aggravates me too much sometimes. Though I still get those gems that I can talk to without any toxic stuff coming from them.
Anyhow no more ranting. I would love to see something be done about toxicity.
I do agree that the administration is one of the issues for it.
Most staff I've talked to are nice, but there are ones that hide behind a "mask" they put on after getting the staff role they applied for. That "mask" doesnt completely cover what they are hiding though.

In a game where we kill eachother words hurt more than the bullets

Cry me a river this isn't politically correct era

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by LYK08

Yes I agree with your take on this and I thank your effort for raising this up.

However, you have failed to consider the fact that the current administration is one which majority of the players do not have a faith in. The fact that they refuse help to players who has had their accounts revoked for no apparent reason despite concealing this refusing in "toonslab support" only goes to show they lack accountability.

I do not want to discourage you, and in fact I have some ideas we could use to incentivise good behaviour. But all these are only possible if the administration can prove itself to be an accountable one - if they themselves cannot even provide clear justifications to the unjust banning of players, why trust that they would implement any of these ideas to better the community?

The fact that the community is in such a pitiful plight only goes to show the efforts of the administration. Maybe the upper echelons are there to deceive or keep the current admins in the dark about all these sudden removal of player accounts , which explains little objection to what the management did, but the fact that these have yet to be accounted for only deepens my belief that this administration will not go far in making the community a better place.

And permabans are just part of the story. No one has to this day offered sound explanation as to why Kirzey and Anero have been permabanned despite their contributions to the game. As someone who believes in meritocracy I believe their work in the game does not in any way warrant such treatment.

That said, its not that I don't take what you've said seriously, but untill the administration proves itself to be taken seriously, don't expect much of any ideas this thread is going to generate to materialise. you're just doing a mob appeal.

But anyway, since you're so keen on getting this solved, I shall offer you some explanations based on research why they behave like that. Hopefully it'll help you think of an idea, but whether or not the administration accepts it is another story.

1. Thinking cyber name calling/swearing etc is okay
Players think its okay because they are used to doing so to their friends (real life/in graal) in the form of self-endearment. Its basically banter that both parties understand and accept (which goes to explain why some are not reported when they do so in game, and therefore go unpunished). Since they go unpunished/their friends accept, they develop this into a habit based upon the assumption that everyone whom they interact with will accept, so they think its okay.

2. Cyberbullying/harassment/ breaking the rules/ being toxic
part 1:
Accept the fact that its a virtual world and every one is concealed behind a screen, their avatars no reflective of their personal self. No personal ego/reputation is at stake (that is, if I offend the world in era, no one will no me irl) so there is no incentive for them to behave properly. If my identity is hidden, even if I harass someone, no one is going to shame me irl, nor will anyone know about it irl so why would I care? Because of a lack of inclination to values and proper conduct in the virtual world since they take on another identity, they tend to behave differently from their usual self. Trust me, most of the people who swear at you in game won't dare to do it irl.

Part 2: since its everyone takes on a new identity, there is no difference in irl status/age. A kid can swear at an adult in game through the avatar, but won't do it irl because they are anonymous, which boosts their audacity to do such things. A kid who has been constantly disciplined to do the right thing irl will find him or herself with freedom in the game, and so will attempt to do whatever they don't get to do irl. (just like how you'd go on a food frenzy if you have been deprived of food for days).

Hope it helps.

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If this was reddit i would make multiple accounts just to upvote this

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joeyaudi1

I couldn't have proven it better, I strongly agree that the community is awful, though I have a hard time figuring out how to make everyone open-minded.

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Are you still a PR? you have so much hatred for the community..

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by RayBaggins

Oh man toxicity is great. Not really. So far after the 3k+ hours and time span of 8 years that I've been playing graal, these past 3 years have been the worst 3 years I've played on graal because of toxicity. Usually I could walk around and actually have conversations with people about certain things like ingame content. Now I find these people who act as if they dont need people talking to them and decide to just start flipping on anyone who tries to for the fun of it.
Also I used to get PMs from people asking how to do certain things ingame and I'd answer them and get a nice thank you and if I didnt know it they would be like darn, or something and move on to the next person. Nowadays when I answer help PMs they just start complaining about how I told them the tip or just reply with "k" and go quiet. Not really toxic just annoying in general since I just took the time to reply to your pm and all you have to say is "k". Then i get these ones who are vulgar to me because i ignored their pm while i was afk. It aggravates me too much sometimes. Though I still get those gems that I can talk to without any toxic stuff coming from them.
Anyhow no more ranting. I would love to see something be done about toxicity.
I do agree that the administration is one of the issues for it.
Most staff I've talked to are nice, but there are ones that hide behind a "mask" they put on after getting the staff role they applied for. That "mask" doesnt completely cover what they are hiding though.

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What you're describing isn't toxicity, rudeness maybe.. You're not entitled to anything for helping people out the sooner u understand that the more enjoyment you'll get out of the game

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Here is what a toxic player REALLY is:
1. Someone complaining on teamates, over things his teamates cant do anything about, making it unnesecary flaming.
2.Someone who is constantly griefing, damaging, or missusing chat.
3.A player who can never take the blame on himself and so lashes out negatively to others.
4. An abusive player.

It’s impossible to make them disappear but “we” can lessen them by:
-hiring more active PRs
-if a huge amount of players decided to ignore them or give them the opposite reaction of what they want, they’ll eventually realize what they’re doing is stupid or they won’t be enjoying it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imaginary

It’s impossible to make them disappear but “we” can lessen them by:
-hiring more active PRs
-if a huge amount of players decided to ignore them or give them the opposite reaction of what they want, they’ll eventually realize what they’re doing is stupid or they won’t be enjoying it

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nah nah nah heres whatcha gotta do.
be toxic towards them. ez

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grantman20

nah nah nah heres whatcha gotta do.
be toxic towards them. ez

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Depends on the situation I guess. Sometimes they do want that reaction and they find it entertaining so RUIN THEIR MOOD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imaginary

Depends on the situation I guess. Sometimes they do want that reaction and they find it entertaining so RUIN THEIR MOOD

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I think If I say X is alive they will block me. There that?s all it takes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wilder94

Are you still a PR? you have so much hatred for the community..

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I've been resigning and coming back due real life problems, but it made me see both parties and compare them. Also don't forget that even PRs are part of the community because we also have a connection to the game through players, and we PRs also have player accounts.

Finally someone that isn?t a crybaby

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I just do it for fun lmao

Sorry about the stupid question mark glitch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LYK08

Yes I agree with your take on this and I thank your effort for raising this up.

However, you have failed to consider the fact that the current administration is one which majority of the players do not have a faith in. The fact that they refuse help to players who has had their accounts revoked for no apparent reason despite concealing this refusing in "toonslab support" only goes to show they lack accountability.

I do not want to discourage you, and in fact I have some ideas we could use to incentivise good behaviour. But all these are only possible if the administration can prove itself to be an accountable one - if they themselves cannot even provide clear justifications to the unjust banning of players, why trust that they would implement any of these ideas to better the community?

The fact that the community is in such a pitiful plight only goes to show the efforts of the administration. Maybe the upper echelons are there to deceive or keep the current admins in the dark about all these sudden removal of player accounts , which explains little objection to what the management did, but the fact that these have yet to be accounted for only deepens my belief that this administration will not go far in making the community a better place.

And permabans are just part of the story. No one has to this day offered sound explanation as to why Kirzey and Anero have been permabanned despite their contributions to the game. As someone who believes in meritocracy I believe their work in the game does not in any way warrant such treatment.

That said, its not that I don't take what you've said seriously, but untill the administration proves itself to be taken seriously, don't expect much of any ideas this thread is going to generate to materialise. you're just doing a mob appeal.

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You completely took that off the deep end; this thread in itself has absolutely nothing to do with staff, faith in staff, and the small percentage of staff that are (and can be) permabanning. The decision to help toxicity is the players?, not the staffs?.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LYK08

But anyway, since you're so keen on getting this solved, I shall offer you some explanations based on research why they behave like that. Hopefully it'll help you think of an idea, but whether or not the administration accepts it is another story.

1. Thinking cyber name calling/swearing etc is okay
Players think its okay because they are used to doing so to their friends (real life/in graal) in the form of self-endearment. Its basically banter that both parties understand and accept (which goes to explain why some are not reported when they do so in game, and therefore go unpunished). Since they go unpunished/their friends accept, they develop this into a habit based upon the assumption that everyone whom they interact with will accept, so they think its okay.

2. Cyberbullying/harassment/ breaking the rules/ being toxic
part 1:
Accept the fact that its a virtual world and every one is concealed behind a screen, their avatars no reflective of their personal self. No personal ego/reputation is at stake (that is, if I offend the world in era, no one will no me irl) so there is no incentive for them to behave properly. If my identity is hidden, even if I harass someone, no one is going to shame me irl, nor will anyone know about it irl so why would I care? Because of a lack of inclination to values and proper conduct in the virtual world since they take on another identity, they tend to behave differently from their usual self. Trust me, most of the people who swear at you in game won't dare to do it irl.

Part 2: since its everyone takes on a new identity, there is no difference in irl status/age. A kid can swear at an adult in game through the avatar, but won't do it irl because they are anonymous, which boosts their audacity to do such things. A kid who has been constantly disciplined to do the right thing irl will find him or herself with freedom in the game, and so will attempt to do whatever they don't get to do irl. (just like how you'd go on a food frenzy if you have been deprived of food for days).

Hope it helps.

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Well, I appreciate your ideas, but considering you?ve brutally harassed me before I struggle to take it seriously. Nonetheless, you?re not wrong about the ?hiding behind the screen?, but I think my point is also being missed; I don?t think it will all go poof, and normal ?bashing? and non directed cursing and things of that nature aren?t what I mean at all. I?m talking about death threats, flat out cursing others out, and other threats/?actual? harassment. Anyways, thanks.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by imaginary

It’s impossible to make them disappear but “we” can lessen them by:
-hiring more active PRs
-if a huge amount of players decided to ignore them or give them the opposite reaction of what they want, they’ll eventually realize what they’re doing is stupid or they won’t be enjoying it

---

I want to clear up the fact that I never suggested it would “disappear”. Merely, I’m just trying to move towards improvement. But yea, I see what you’re saying.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wilder94

In a game where we kill eachother words hurt more than the bullets

Cry me a river this isn't politically correct era

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If this was reddit i would make multiple accounts just to upvote this

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Are you still a PR? you have so much hatred for the community..

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What you're describing isn't toxicity, rudeness maybe.. You're not entitled to anything for helping people out the sooner u understand that the more enjoyment you'll get out of the game

- - - Updated - - -

Here is what a toxic player REALLY is:
1. Someone complaining on teamates, over things his teamates cant do anything about, making it unnesecary flaming.
2.Someone who is constantly griefing, damaging, or missusing chat.
3.A player who can never take the blame on himself and so lashes out negatively to others.
4. An abusive player.

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“Politically correct Era”? Not my idea; once again, toxicity is when you?re getting threatened, when you?re getting cursed out, racism. You can?t force someone to suck it up when something like that happens. I?ve been tracked down to my city before, given multiple death threats, among other things. If you think that?s okay, okay. That?s your opinion; but do you have any ideas instead of saying what you?re saying?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by chocofly

This is the internet. A place where everyone, can be anyone they want.
The guy was being a deck in an online game. It happens. It's real life. Not everyone has to be nice to you.

The community is made up of pre teens, not primarily "older" people. (20s etc)

You can't force a way of thinking for people, to create " A better community "

What is a better community? A community in which everyone is happy? Creating a false state of reality?
It's forced.

Someone said something mean, I suggest ignoring.

" And don't throw the "It's my right to say what I want!" argument at me; that right, like ALL rights, comes with limits. "
The right for free-speech doesn't have any limits. It's to say whatever you want. And the best thing about the internet, you can say anything you want back. Or just block them. Etc.

I've been called a few vulgur slurs for supporting someone I look up to, which happens to be the President of the US.
But I man up, and ignore. It's life.

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I understand that, I?m not trying to be Snow White here. I?m talking about pure harassment; threats, being cursed out (multiple pms of just that), racism. Not the simple and considered okay things. Thanks for responding anyways

Also, your freedom of speech does have limits. Hence why you’re punished for verbally abusing others; racism, threats and similar things are not exception to that. If you abuse your speech freedom and therefore impede on another’s freedoms, yours are limited. Research it.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lacolas420

It?s just a game, stop being a crybaby. They don?t actually mean it because they?re trolls.

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If you don?t care about my thread, then don?t respond. Actually read it and what I mean if you’re going to respond.

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Sorry if I was a bit snippy but there were way too many misunderstandings. Read my above ^ reply to clear things up. To summarize, this isn’t to find a complete be all and end all, this isn’t a staff based thing, and “toxicity” is referring to threats, racism, and severe verbal abuse (which is all too common).

I appreciate all responses nonetheless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chocofly

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Words aren’t just words. Words can change someone’s life. Words can create little to huge problems. Words can cause civil wars or wars in general...

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The US has a high crime rate “violent crimes per 10,000 people across the entire population (not specifically those with or without disabilities). The U.S. average violent crime rate is 38.8 with a range of 12.4 in Maine to 120.6 in the District of Columbia. Of the cities examined, Detroit, Memphis and Baltimore have the highest violent crime rates, with rates that are over four times the national average.”

I’m pretty sure the UK is way lower comparing to the US... UK isn’t failing at all

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chocofly

Words are just words.

If words effect you, then that's YOUR problem. You can't censor every human on planet earth, because A few people grew up with rainbows and marshmallows.

From someone who's witnessing the UK's failure, trust me. It's failing.
Here are just a few example.

We have a shortage of police. YET, the police spend enough time to arrest over 3000 people for stuff said on the internet.
NHS is failing.
London just over took New York with crime.
Teenagers are walking around the streets stabbing people, nothing being done.
No free speech.
Immigrants are being shipped here in the thousands, when we can't handle them.
We have a government who still hasen't gone through with Britain leaving the EU.
Every party, except UKIP, are soft, useless and pretend as if being gay is the best thing that as ever happend.

No one is disciplined.
Which is why we have millennials fighting to get their rights removed.

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Words affect everyone including you

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Why are these people getting arrested? Trash talking the royal family..? Cursing the government?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zany

Sorry about the stupid question mark glitch.



You completely took that off the deep end; this thread in itself has absolutely nothing to do with staff, faith in staff, and the small percentage of staff that are (and can be) permabanning. The decision to help toxicity is the players?, not the staffs?.



Well, I appreciate your ideas, but considering you?ve brutally harassed me before I struggle to take it seriously. Nonetheless, you?re not wrong about the ?hiding behind the screen?, but I think my point is also being missed; I don?t think it will all go poof, and normal ?bashing? and non directed cursing and things of that nature aren?t what I mean at all. I?m talking about death threats, flat out cursing others out, and other threats/?actual? harassment. Anyways, thanks.

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I want to clear up the fact that I never suggested it would ?disappear?. Merely, I?m just trying to move towards improvement. But yea, I see what you?re saying.

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?Politically correct Era?? Not my idea; once again, toxicity is when you?re getting threatened, when you?re getting cursed out, racism. You can?t force someone to suck it up when something like that happens. I?ve been tracked down to my city before, given multiple death threats, among other things. If you think that?s okay, okay. That?s your opinion; but do you have any ideas instead of saying what you?re saying?

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I understand that, I?m not trying to be Snow White here. I?m talking about pure harassment; threats, being cursed out (multiple pms of just that), racism. Not the simple and considered okay things. Thanks for responding anyways

Also, your freedom of speech does have limits. Hence why you?re punished for verbally abusing others; racism, threats and similar things are not exception to that. If you abuse your speech freedom and therefore impede on another?s freedoms, yours are limited. Research it.

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If you don?t care about my thread, then don?t respond. Actually read it and what I mean if you?re going to respond.

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Sorry if I was a bit snippy but there were way too many misunderstandings. Read my above ^ reply to clear things up. To summarize, this isn?t to find a complete be all and end all, this isn?t a staff based thing, and ?toxicity? is referring to threats, racism, and severe verbal abuse (which is all too common).

I appreciate all responses nonetheless.

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I don't recall having had any interaction with you over here or having done what you've alleged. And that's out of topic, moreover. PM me if there's any dispute about anything you are unhappy with.

If you are going to start a thread inviting responses that you are going to dismiss using ad hominem and "poisoning the well" logical fallacy, this forum has no place for you. I will say this seriously and I hope my language is not too difficult for you to comprehend.

You are trying to drive at a point in which it is morally worthy to support, but you have disregarded its impracticality and failed to conceive of its feasibility given its current administration. Your suggestion on this is ambitious, with little regard for its feasibility. Many schools are trying to curb this issue and if they can't I don't see why a game can. You do not consider the current administration in implementing your ideas, making this thread derived from pure narrow-mindedness, foolishness and impulsiveness.

Since you have refused to take some of ur responses pertaining to your topic seriously, I see no point in trying to argue with you. What I've pointed out are based on research and are based logically - you can believe it or not, its up to you. I find it absolutely disgusting of a user like you to start a thread only to treat your respondents in such a manner, its an utter disregard for their opinions (which you invited in the first place).

Many of your respondents are providing personal and insightful views on the matter raised and I definitely appreciate their discipline in doing so without any logical fallacy, unlike what you've taken in response to my reply. We are dealing with something serious that concerns the wellbeing of the Era Community and false allegations and logically-flaws arguments will only serve to derail the thread and render ineffective its ability in influencing the ways things are done. I sincerely hope you can take it with the same gravity about it as I do, if you are to continue posting in future.

You only choose to take on ad hominem arguments in dismissing opinions, well if that's the way, then I shall comment no further on this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chocofly

And that's your responsibility. If it affects you, it's down to you.

Examples being, someone dancing to a Mexican song, I believe.
A guy teaching his dog to do an Nazi salute etc.

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Sorry it’s not only my responsibility. When a group gets triggered by racist words and start harassing and stabbing the other group I don’t just sit there and cry..? I or we could prevent it in the first place by using better words CUZ words do affect everything.

I wonder what made a lot of teenagers stab other people? Perhaps they heard words over and over again which got into their minds and promoted it.

Someone dancing to a Mexican song got arrested..? There’s more into this story, maybe they were just investigating or he did more. Why teach a dog that? Or even think of it. What about the other 2998 people they were arrested for no reason?

The worst place in the UK is London cuz a lot of tourists visit it which is easier for robbers to... rob people who don’t belong to the country. But yea police should work on that

An MMO of Era's scale (4000+ active players) is bound to be toxic, and trying to filter out ideas isn't going to change anything. Blocking players is made extremely easy in Graal, so if someone says something you don't like, Block them and carry on. Nobody is going to stop and treat these reports of bad behavior on a case by case basis if there's more pressing reports to be had. You've signed up for the MMO experience with Era, and annoying rude people are unfortunately part of the package, Deal with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chocofly

This is the internet. A place where everyone, can be anyone they want.
The guy was being a deck in an online game. It happens. It's real life. Not everyone has to be nice to you.

The community is made up of pre teens, not primarily "older" people. (20s etc)

You can't force a way of thinking for people, to create " A better community "

What is a better community? A community in which everyone is happy? Creating a false state of reality?
It's forced.

Someone said something mean, I suggest ignoring.

" And don't throw the "It's my right to say what I want!" argument at me; that right, like ALL rights, comes with limits. "
The right for free-speech doesn't have any limits. It's to say whatever you want. And the best thing about the internet, you can say anything you want back. Or just block them. Etc.

I've been called a few vulgur slurs for supporting someone I look up to, which happens to be the President of the US.
But I man up, and ignore. It's life.

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Amen

Making Era the most politically correct MMO where nobody can say anything bad about themselves is inherently limiting free speech. Take a look at Era PC back in the day, there was a lot of toxic behavior and rivalries in the small community, even death threats weren't uncommon, but because that community is mostly comprised of people in their 20s-30s who have been on the internet for a while, it doesn't bother them because they know they're baseless insults/threats.

TL:DR Grow some thick skin already, nobody wants to limit their free speech because a couple of sensitive people want to be in a safespace bubble. If you can't handle the fact that some people are bound to be annoying or rude, the Internet is not the place for you, and you'd be much better suited for a safe space tumblr blog.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LYK08

I don't recall having had any interaction with you over here or having done what you've alleged. And that's out of topic, moreover. PM me if there's any dispute about anything you are unhappy with.

If you are going to start a thread inviting responses that you are going to dismiss using ad hominem and "poisoning the well" logical fallacy, this forum has no place for you. I will say this seriously and I hope my language is not too difficult for you to comprehend.

You are trying to drive at a point in which it is morally worthy to support, but you have disregarded its impracticality and failed to conceive of its feasibility given its current administration. Your suggestion on this is ambitious, with little regard for its feasibility. Many schools are trying to curb this issue and if they can't I don't see why a game can. You do not consider the current administration in implementing your ideas, making this thread derived from pure narrow-mindedness, foolishness and impulsiveness.

Since you have refused to take some of ur responses pertaining to your topic seriously, I see no point in trying to argue with you. What I've pointed out are based on research and are based logically - you can believe it or not, its up to you. I find it absolutely disgusting of a user like you to start a thread only to treat your respondents in such a manner, its an utter disregard for their opinions (which you invited in the first place).

Many of your respondents are providing personal and insightful views on the matter raised and I definitely appreciate their discipline in doing so without any logical fallacy, unlike what you've taken in response to my reply. We are dealing with something serious that concerns the wellbeing of the Era Community and false allegations and logically-flaws arguments will only serve to derail the thread and render ineffective its ability in influencing the ways things are done. I sincerely hope you can take it with the same gravity about it as I do, if you are to continue posting in future.

You only choose to take on ad hominem arguments in dismissing opinions, well if that's the way, then I shall comment no further on this thread.

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I don?t appreciate you suggesting I?m treating respondents that way. In every single response I?ve written, including to yours, and not sarcastically, I?ve said thank you in some shape or form. I?m allowed to disagree with some responses but I?m accepting them nonetheless.

What I said in response to your post wasn?t bashing what you said, or disregarding it. I simply disagreed with some things, and agreed with others. I?m sorry you feel I?m inferior and disgusting to you, in no way did I mean to be such.

And I?m not trying to solve world peace. All I want is some garnered ideas on finding ways to encourage better behavior. I said ?I appreciate all responses nonetheless? in most recent post. I don?t disregard anything, and that assumption is insulting.

But you?re steering this off topic. If you want to argue over a respectful response, although you seem to think I?m being malicious, please privately contact me, and tell me what I said that you found as insulting as you did. Otherwise, I?m allowed to not agree but I always appreciate and think about the responses I get.

Thanks.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gabipants

An MMO of Era's scale (4000+ active players) is bound to be toxic, and trying to filter out ideas isn't going to change anything. Blocking players is made extremely easy in Graal, so if someone says something you don't like, Block them and carry on. Nobody is going to stop and treat these reports of bad behavior on a case by case basis if there's more pressing reports to be had. You've signed up for the MMO experience with Era, and annoying rude people are unfortunately part of the package, Deal with it.



Amen

Making Era the most politically correct MMO where nobody can say anything bad about themselves is inherently limiting free speech. Take a look at Era PC back in the day, there was a lot of toxic behavior and rivalries in the small community, even death threats weren't uncommon, but because that community is mostly comprised of people in their 20s-30s who have been on the internet for a while, it doesn't bother them because they know they're baseless insults/threats.

TL:DR Grow some thick skin already, nobody wants to limit their free speech because a couple of sensitive people want to be in a safespace bubble. If you can't handle the fact that some people are bound to be annoying or rude, the Internet is not the place for you, and you'd be much better suited for a safe space tumblr blog.

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Thanks for the response and I understand what you?re saying. But in no shape or form is sending death threats, and being racist something that should be allowed and accepted as ?okay?. It?s not about growing thick skin because you have to realize every single person has different history and culture and handles things differently. A block may stop it but it can still bother someone. Someone is rude or annoying? Fine. But when someone is threatening, racist, and extremely over the top, they will be punished, and their freedom of speech will be limited as a result. It?s just how it is.

I was talking to someone about my disabled brother who is currently sick in the hospital with a friend, and someone decided to curse out me and my brother, saying he deserved to die. That?s a sensitive thing for me, like you?d never know, and I?m supposed to walk away like nothing happened? Maybe you can, I can't though. Even though I could?ve said it privately, that?s MY freedom of speech and that puts that persons horrendous actions on me.

Nonetheless, I do agree we shouldn?t limit all speech or something like that. I?m talking about extremes. Not curse words without direction and annoyances. The game is more diverse now, and with that needs change; if someone says things like that it can?t be accepted, hollow or not. I do see what you are saying though.

We have to keep in mind that even though ?words have as much power as you give them?, you have to be soulless to have absolutely nothing that is said to you affecting you.

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Please keep this thread on topic, I don’t want it being closed. Thanks :D

@Zany and @LYK08
I feel like there's some confusion between the points the two of you are making. Zany is discussing what we as players can do to help decrease the toxicity in the community. LYK08 is discussing ways that the staff team needs to improve in order to decrease the toxicity. I believe both of you make valid points, and I believe they go hand in hand. As a community, we can all improve on our attitudes towards one another and be less toxic and rude and all that. The staff team can help with that, though it can be tricky finding that line between filtering out toxicity and over-policing the community.

I think that the most realistic way for us to make the community less toxic is to just set a good example and hope others follow suit. When you get harassed too much, block the person. I have had people tell me that they don’t want to block people because it gives the harasser the satisfaction of "winning". There is no winning in these situations, you just have to cut those people out and be done with it, there are no winners, no losers, you just block out that hate and let the person do their own thing being a jerk and all that. If there’s vulgarity, racism, and other serious things (like someone finding out what city you live in? That is scary stuff.), report the person so a PR can step in and do their thing. I think if we as a people start being more friendly towards each other then eventually our online personas will follow suit. This goes beyond Era, and I feel like society as a whole has been becoming less friendly than when I was younger.

@chocofly
In regards to "Words are just words": I believe that words are much more than just that. Words are our main way of communicating, especially through the Internet. The saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" is a gigantic lie. Words are extremely powerful and dictate how we think about not only others, but ourselves too. If people all around you are telling you things about yourself that aren’t true, eventually you might start to believe them. This is what drives a lot of people into doing things like school shootings or committing suicide or other things of that nature. Sure, it would be nice if nobody was bothered by anything other people say, but that isn’t really how the world works. Public shaming is a powerful social construct with words as the main tool. When you are young, and you misbehave or do something mean, people all around you say things like "That’s mean, don’t do that." or "No, that’s dangerous" and we learn not to do that thing. Words and communication shape the way we think and act, and they can be seriously dangerous when used to negatively influence someone.

@imaginary/margadosh/whateveryouwantmetocallyou
Big fan of the way you made the quotes just a bunch of ^^^^^'s so we don’t have to see the whole quote again

Quote:

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Originally Posted by failure

@Zany and @LYK08
I feel like there's some confusion between the points the two of you are making. Zany is discussing what we as players can do to help decrease the toxicity in the community. LYK08 is discussing ways that the staff team needs to improve in order to decrease the toxicity. I believe both of you make valid points, and I believe they go hand in hand. As a community, we can all improve on our attitudes towards one another and be less toxic and rude and all that. The staff team can help with that, though it can be tricky finding that line between filtering out toxicity and over-policing the community.

I think that the most realistic way for us to make the community less toxic is to just set a good example and hope others follow suit. When you get harassed too much, block the person. I have had people tell me that they don’t want to block people because it gives the harasser the satisfaction of "winning". There is no winning in these situations, you just have to cut those people out and be done with it, there are no winners, no losers, you just block out that hate and let the person do their own thing being a jerk and all that. If there’s vulgarity, racism, and other serious things (like someone finding out what city you live in? That is scary stuff.), report the person so a PR can step in and do their thing. I think if we as a people start being more friendly towards each other then eventually our online personas will follow suit. This goes beyond Era, and I feel like society as a whole has been becoming less friendly than when I was younger.

@chocofly
In regards to "Words are just words": I believe that words are much more than just that. Words are our main way of communicating, especially through the Internet. The saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" is a gigantic lie. Words are extremely powerful and dictate how we think about not only others, but ourselves too. If people all around you are telling you things about yourself that aren’t true, eventually you might start to believe them. This is what drives a lot of people into doing things like school shootings or committing suicide or other things of that nature. Sure, it would be nice if nobody was bothered by anything other people say, but that isn’t really how the world works. Public shaming is a powerful social construct with words as the main tool. When you are young, and you misbehave or do something mean, people all around you say things like "That’s mean, don’t do that." or "No, that’s dangerous" and we learn not to do that thing. Words and communication shape the way we think and act, and they can be seriously dangerous when used to negatively influence someone.

@imaginary/margadosh/whateveryouwantmetocallyou
Big fan of the way you made the quotes just a bunch of ^^^^^'s so we don’t have to see the whole quote again

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I respect you quite a bit for a lot of your responses lately. And I couldn’t agree more on most of your points. Thank you for responding. And yea, I’ve been tracked down, and have gotten multiple death threats before, plus some players threatened and rioted against me as a staff (I was a staff for all of this and most made seperate accounts on continuum to continue) because of my young age, which was somehow leaked and spread.

My only thing about blocking, although I completely agree with what you said, is the effects of what someone says are still there. But blocking still is great for ending problems.

But yea, seriously, spot on man.

So many words to read, my eyes are tired now.

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Originally Posted by Joeyaudi1

So many words to read, my eyes are tired now.

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Sorry Joey <3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zany

I don?t appreciate you suggesting I?m treating respondents that way. In every single response I?ve written, including to yours, and not sarcastically, I?ve said thank you in some shape or form. I?m allowed to disagree with some responses but I?m accepting them nonetheless.

What I said in response to your post wasn?t bashing what you said, or disregarding it. I simply disagreed with some things, and agreed with others. I?m sorry you feel I?m inferior and disgusting to you, in no way did I mean to be such.

And I?m not trying to solve world peace. All I want is some garnered ideas on finding ways to encourage better behavior. I said ?I appreciate all responses nonetheless? in most recent post. I don?t disregard anything, and that assumption is insulting.

But you?re steering this off topic. If you want to argue over a respectful response, although you seem to think I?m being malicious, please privately contact me, and tell me what I said that you found as insulting as you did. Otherwise, I?m allowed to not agree but I always appreciate and think about the responses I get.

Thanks.

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Thanks for the response and I understand what you?re saying. But in no shape or form is sending death threats, and being racist something that should be allowed and accepted as ?okay?. It?s not about growing thick skin because you have to realize every single person has different history and culture and handles things differently. A block may stop it but it can still bother someone. Someone is rude or annoying? Fine. But when someone is threatening, racist, and extremely over the top, they will be punished, and their freedom of speech will be limited as a result. It?s just how it is.

I was talking to someone about my disabled brother who is currently sick in the hospital with a friend, and someone decided to curse out me and my brother, saying he deserved to die. That?s a sensitive thing for me, like you?d never know, and I?m supposed to walk away like nothing happened? Maybe you can, I can't though. Even though I could?ve said it privately, that?s MY freedom of speech and that puts that persons horrendous actions on me.

Nonetheless, I do agree we shouldn?t limit all speech or something like that. I?m talking about extremes. Not curse words without direction and annoyances. The game is more diverse now, and with that needs change; if someone says things like that it can?t be accepted, hollow or not. I do see what you are saying though.

We have to keep in mind that even though ?words have as much power as you give them?, you have to be soulless to have absolutely nothing that is said to you affecting you.

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Please keep this thread on topic, I don?t want it being closed. Thanks :D

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Well yes, you said you wanted ideas to improve the community and I was telling you straight the following
1. The administration needs to change for ideas generated in the first place to work. (it's a fact to accept, is it that hard?)

2. Why some players choose to behave as what you said so that you can better understand what you're dealing with (but as you said u have difficulties taking it seriously, so this is just disregarding what I've mentioned, which I am obviously unhappy with because you asked for responses and I'm providing you with some)

3. You didnt make much emphasis on "death threats" in your first post. Who'd know you'd be referring to that?

I honestly don't know what's with the accusations and how has it got to do with incentive ideas in the first place. And I don't have a problem with you, which is why my first post was kept entirely neutral with no personal attacks whatsoever. And I didn't expect you to take offense with my first post.

You can obviously disagree with the admin part, but I think acknowledging that the current administration needs to change is prerequisite for any ideas generated to work in the first place. Case in point - the player count has fallen from 3-4k to 1-2k under the current administration and I think that goes to show a lot. Not that I'm hating the administration but I think we need to come to terms that this administration is not likely to make your ideas work.


Out of goodwill I'm helping by giving a response which you can obviously disagree with, but that doesn't make the intention less of a good one. So much for that.

Sent from my A37f using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LYK08

Well yes, you said you wanted ideas to improve the community and I was telling you straight the following
1. The administration needs to change for ideas generated in the first place to work. (it's a fact to accept, is it that hard?)

2. Why some players choose to behave as what you said so that you can better understand what you're dealing with (but as you said u have difficulties taking it seriously, so this is just disregarding what I've mentioned, which I am obviously unhappy with because you asked for responses and I'm providing you with some)

3. You didnt make much emphasis on "death threats" in your first post. Who'd know you'd be referring to that?

I honestly don't know what's with the accusations and how has it got to do with incentive ideas in the first place. And I don't have a problem with you, which is why my first post was kept entirely neutral with no personal attacks whatsoever. And I didn't expect you to take offense with my first post.

You can obviously disagree with the admin part, but I think acknowledging that the current administration needs to change is prerequisite for any ideas generated to work in the first place. Case in point - the player count has fallen from 3-4k to 1-2k under the current administration and I think that goes to show a lot. Not that I'm hating the administration but I think we need to come to terms that this administration is not likely to make your ideas work.


Out of goodwill I'm helping by giving a response which you can obviously disagree with, but that doesn't make the intention less of a good one. So much for that.

Sent from my A37f using Tapatalk

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How do you think the administration needs to change in order to decrease toxicity? What kinds of ideas do you have to decrease toxicity that the administration can help with? I’m sure the majority of us would do whatever we can to decrease the levels of toxicity.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zany

I respect you quite a bit for a lot of your responses lately. And I couldn?t agree more on most of your points. Thank you for responding. And yea, I?ve been tracked down, and have gotten multiple death threats before, plus some players threatened and rioted against me as a staff (I was a staff for all of this and most made seperate accounts on continuum to continue) because of my young age, which was somehow leaked and spread.

My only thing about blocking, although I completely agree with what you said, is the effects of what someone says are still there. But blocking still is great for ending problems.

But yea, seriously, spot on man.

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Thanks. It?s true that blocking doesnt take away what was already said, but to be honest, nothing really will. It would be best to just try and avoid and prevent toxicity, but we all know that is not a reasonable goal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by failure

How do you think the administration needs to change in order to decrease toxicity? What kinds of ideas do you have to decrease toxicity that the administration can help with? I?m sure the majority of us would do whatever we can to decrease the levels of toxicity.

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Mind reading my first post?

1. I think the management needs to improve on its accountability especially to those unexplained permabans

2. The management needs to be more active on the forums. From what i could observe, snk was more active on the forums when he was manager and I think that's where ideas generated can actually be better communicated. If the manager only wants to depend on initiatives by staff who've seen the ideas, then this platform would be quite in effective in conveying ideas.

I think its important we know the limitations around which we are working it not regardless of how grand our ideas are we will only be self-deceptively reassuring ourselves at the prospect of our ideas working out but never see it implemented.

An idea would be to be more specific with the rules coz some players choose to disregard it due to its generic nature. They can argue that some status are not inappropriate without taking into account context in which it is applied to.


A clear warning about the punishment that will be given when one person has been gagged. Like eg how the hours will accumulate etc (next length of jail time etc)

An anti-spam system in place? If the same word word has been repeated over many times it will lead to auto gag. Prevents spamming and harassment?

Am outside rn I'll give an elaboration If needed when back.

Sent from my A37f using Tapatalk

“An anti-spam system in place? If the same word word has been repeated over many times it will lead to auto gag. Prevents spamming and harassment? “
No that’s a bad idea. We already have a bad filter system.
Like I’d possibly be gagged for repeating the word “you”? No thx

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Originally Posted by Zany

It?s not about growing thick skin

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Yes it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zany

A block may stop it but it can still bother someone.

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Are you really offended by something someone online has told you for the sole purpose of offending you? Welcome to the internet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zany

But when someone is threatening, racist, and extremely over the top, they will be punished, and their freedom of speech will be limited as a result. It?s just how it is.

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There are swear filters in place, which are fine for limiting foul language, but limiting ideas and thoughts for other people is very "Thought police" for an MMO for crying out loud.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zany

I was talking to someone about my disabled brother who is currently sick in the hospital with a friend, and someone decided to curse out me and my brother, saying he deserved to die. That?s a sensitive thing for me, like you?d never know, and I?m supposed to walk away like nothing happened? Maybe you can, I can't though. Even though I could?ve said it privately, that?s MY freedom of speech and that puts that persons horrendous actions on me.

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Pretty wretched stuff said here, but clearly said for the sole purpose of trolling and trying to shock and offend. By having such strong reactions, you're feeding the trolls and giving them satisfaction. Instead, ignore them and block. It's that easy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zany

If someone says things like that it can?t be accepted, hollow or not. I do see what you are saying though.

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It's not about it being accepted, it's about ignoring it. It's inevitably going to happen whether a system to limit them is in place or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gabipants

Yes it is.


Are you really offended by something someone online has told you for the sole purpose of offending you? Welcome to the internet.


There are swear filters in place, which are fine for limiting foul language, but limiting ideas and thoughts for other people is very "Thought police" for an MMO for crying out loud.


Pretty wretched stuff said here, but clearly said for the sole purpose of trolling and trying to shock and offend. By having such strong reactions, you're feeding the trolls and giving them satisfaction. Instead, ignore them and block. It's that easy.


It's not about it being accepted, it's about ignoring it. It's inevitably going to happen whether a system to limit them is in place or not.

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Thanks again for responding,
I ignored them. I don?t care what their intent is; it pained me deeply because of the sensitivity that comes with that topic. And it may be inevitable but my point is it can be improved. It doesn?t hurt anything to try. I see what you?re saying with everything you say but at the same time, we can?t be ignorant to the flip side (both sides being realities). It?s all about trying to help the situation more than encouraging (or defending, rather) the horrid behavior others present. Get what I mean?

I appreciate all your answers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LYK08

Mind reading my first post?

1. I think the management needs to improve on its accountability especially to those unexplained permabans

2. The management needs to be more active on the forums. From what i could observe, snk was more active on the forums when he was manager and I think that's where ideas generated can actually be better communicated. If the manager only wants to depend on initiatives by staff who've seen the ideas, then this platform would be quite in effective in conveying ideas.

I think its important we know the limitations around which we are working it not regardless of how grand our ideas are we will only be self-deceptively reassuring ourselves at the prospect of our ideas working out but never see it implemented.

An idea would be to be more specific with the rules coz some players choose to disregard it due to its generic nature. They can argue that some status are not inappropriate without taking into account context in which it is applied to.


A clear warning about the punishment that will be given when one person has been gagged. Like eg how the hours will accumulate etc (next length of jail time etc)

An anti-spam system in place? If the same word word has been repeated over many times it will lead to auto gag. Prevents spamming and harassment?

Am outside rn I'll give an elaboration If needed when back.

Sent from my A37f using Tapatalk

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In regards to the permaban situation, even though I am a staff member, I have literally no idea what happened to cause those or what happened regarding them. That may be why no one you’ve been able to contact can give a clear explanation. Also, since your account wasn’t permabanned, it isn’t something we would discuss to keep peoples privacy. I do agree that management should be more active on here, and I have tried and will continue to try to push more activity on here.

But yeah, when you said the word administration, I meant what can the entire staff team do to help with this situation? I know you would like more staff participation on here, but how do you propose that will help the in game community, seeing as only a small percentage of players visit these forums?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zany

That got my gears chugging (obviously, because here I am shoving an essay down everybody's throats again). You can't change everybody. He, obviously, is stuck with this, and I respect his opinion.

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As for the essay you'd better buy one and safe the effort. Such works are cheap nowadays and quality is over the top. Check it out https://domyessayright.com/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bilandima

As for the essay you'd better buy one and safe the effort. Such works are cheap nowadays and quality is over the top. Check it out https://domyessayright.com/

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Yo, this thread is 2 years old and you don't gotta be rude about it.

Closed.