Weapon Rebalancing

With Bitzsam gone it seems like no one is taking care of the guns in game nor keeping sure that everything is kept balanced. It is undeniable that there are currently guns which need to be reinvented — there have always been.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3d7384163e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...875383fdc0.jpg

These guns are the A91, Black Lotus Assault Rifle, the SLH-46 and the BAR. I will address these guns separately in the same order as mentioned. Keep in mind that i don’t have access to any of the scripts for these guns therefore i cant provide any exact stats, but those would prove my point even further. My “complaints” arent with the guns themselves and how they are used generally, but based on how they’ve been used in spar lately — which often doesnt even seem to be considered when making these guns in the first place.

A-91:
For a gun which only costs 90k gralats you receive a weapon with almost seamless freeze that deals 11 damage with a 25 clip and lots of spread. The combination between the medium firerate and low freeze makes this an instant favorite for spammers who like to clog the entire arena with bullets within seconds. My issue with this gun is with it’s overpowered combination between the high clip, the firerate, the freeze and the price. This gun is a poor example of what a run-and-gun weapon should be like, referring to guns with very low freeze. A better example would be the HK-416 which, despite having a lower freeze and considerably high spread, knows how to balance that with a low firerate and a sensical clip of 15 bullets. Just for reference A91 has almost twice that clip and is way faster just for a 10,000 gralat difference.

Black Lotus Assault Rifle: this gun is another poor example of a horrible run-and-gun weapon looks like, though not being as much of an issue given how considerably harder it is to get 95 event coins as opposed to 90,000 gralats. The combination between the firerate and the freeze of this gun is just straight up stupid. That trumped by the fact it has a 20 clip makes me question the mental stability and sanity of whoever added these stats. If this gun was limited it would make much more sense why it works the way it does, but for a gun that can infinitely be purchased by players this gun has to be changed ASAP before more people get it and get upset with it’s inevitable nerf. I really dont have much more to say about it, you just have to see for yourself how this gun performs in spar to see how absolutely ridiculous it is. My suggestion would be to increase the freeze of this gun and shorten the clip.

SLH-46: I dont have much of an issue with this gun, since it is a limited edition gun and besides the one being given away in the instagram giveaway no more will ever be added to the game. Out of the current 13 people who own it only about 4-5 spar with it on a regular basis. Though the main modes arent much of an issue with problem lies on the pistol mode. The pistol mode has an incredibly fast firerate and an almost seamless reload, making this a nightmare to go against in spar given how much spam it can create.

BAR: There is not much to say about this gun that hasnt been said before. Either ban this gun from sparring or just reduce the damage by a mere 0.5 damage, thats ALL it takes to fix this gun, a mere 0.5 damage reduction will fix the gun without taking too much away from it.



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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

With a deadbeat gun admin it seems like no one is taking care of the guns in game nor keeping sure that everything is kept balanced. It is undeniable that there are currently guns which need to be reinvented — there have always been.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3d7384163e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...875383fdc0.jpg

These guns are the A91, Black Lotus Assault Rifle, the SLH-46 and the BAR. I will address these guns separately in the same order as mentioned. Keep in mind that i don’t have access to any of the scripts for these guns therefore i cant provide any exact stats, but those would prove my point even further. My “complaints” arent with the guns themselves and how they are used generally, but based on how they’ve been used in spar lately — which often doesnt even seem to be considered when making these guns in the first place.

A-91:
For a gun which only costs 90k gralats you receive a weapon with almost seamless freeze that deals 11 damage with a 25 clip and lots of spread. The combination between the medium firerate and low freeze makes this an instant favorite for spammers who like to clog the entire arena with bullets within seconds. My issue with this gun is with it’s overpowered combination between the high clip, the firerate, the freeze and the price. This gun is a poor example of what a run-and-gun weapon should be like, referring to guns with very low freeze. A better example would be the HK-416 which, despite having a lower freeze and considerably high spread, knows how to balance that with a low firerate and a sensical clip of 15 bullets. Just for reference A91 has almost twice that clip and is way faster just for a 10,000 gralat difference.

Black Lotus Assault Rifle: this gun is another poor example of a horrible run-and-gun weapon looks like, though not being as much of an issue given how considerably harder it is to get 95 event coins as opposed to 90,000 gralats. The combination between the firerate and the freeze of this gun is just straight up stupid. That trumped by the fact it has a 20 clip makes me question the mental stability and sanity of whoever added these stats. If this gun was limited it would make much more sense why it works the way it does, but for a gun that can infinitely be purchased by players this gun has to be changed ASAP before more people get it and get upset with it’s inevitable nerf. I really dont have much more to say about it, you just have to see for yourself how this gun performs in spar to see how absolutely ridiculous it is. My suggestion would be to increase the freeze of this gun and shorten the clip.

SLH-46: I dont have much of an issue with this gun, since it is a limited edition gun and besides the one being given away in the instagram giveaway no more will ever be added to the game. Out of the current 13 people who own it only about 4-5 spar with it on a regular basis. Though the main modes arent much of an issue with problem lies on the pistol mode. The pistol mode has an incredibly fast firerate and an almost seamless reload, making this a nightmare to go against in spar given how much spam it can create.

BAR: There is not much to say about this gun that hasnt been said before. Either ban this gun from sparring or just reduce the damage by a mere 0.5 damage, thats ALL it takes to fix this gun, a mere 0.5 damage reduction will fix the gun without taking too much away from it.



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While I agree with what you're saying, I disagree with your personal attack against our Guns Admin. Is he the most active? Certainly not. But, that's no reason to go calling him a "deadbeat gun admin".

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Originally Posted by kaz210

While I agree with what you're saying, I disagree with your personal attack against our Guns Admin. Is he the most active? Certainly not. But, that's no reason to go calling him a "deadbeat gun admin".

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If other people shared the power he held i wouldnt have an issue, but why hold such an important position by yourself if you’re not going to be active?. Thats just my personal opinion of the guy and while i do admit he’s an amazing graphics artist, LDA and Gani artist i have never agreed with him solely handling the Gun Admin position specially with the decisions he has made over the past 3 years.


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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

If other people shared the power he held i wouldnt have an issue, but why hold such an important position by yourself if you’re not going to be active?. Thats just my personal opinion of the guy and while i do admit he’s an amazing graphics artist, LDA and Gani artist i have never agreed with him solely handling the Gun Admin position specially with to the decisions he has made over the past 3 years.


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Why are exotic weapons that BitzSam creates no longer balanced? As in they aren’t balanced equally amongst each other. When you take a look at all of the exotic weapons, only 2017’s(Renegade and Armor) are the ones that stand out. They are so incredibly OP and every other exotic is just bland like any auction weapon. Sure they may be unique and rare but they are no where near as OP as they should be for their rarity and cost in shells. Only 25 of these coins are released per year and i estimate 5 or more are given to noobs that probably quit and never even realize what they own. The coins are very hard to get and the exotic weapons aren’t as great as they should be. Another weapon that isn’t balanced comes from Plasma Corp and is so hard to get that is so underwhelming is the Photon Rifle. For 200k kills and 15,000 plasma coins, it is just a horrible weapon to use. The anti matter burner is so much better and only costs 7500 coins. The Photon Rifle is the “ultimate weapon” but doesn’t live up to its expectations or name. I have heard rumors that Junz wanted it to be buffed but bitzsam didn’t allow it. Maybe he doesn’t want another “chem” in the game but this gun is certainly no where near a chem. Its not even as good as a flamethrower. Those are just some of the weapons that i believe should be rebalanced.

I'm not active on my player account because my ipad is broken. I still check here and discord daily. The point of the large gun rebalance was so that gun stats could effectively be finalised and didn't need to be tweaked randomly- As was a common complaint by players when individual guns had to be rebalanced multiple times.

A-91 is good yea, don't see the issue with it remaining so. It's balanced accordingly with guns comparable to its price eg-UMP45 and is a good, cheaper option for those who were against the P2W aspect of the game.

Black Lotus and the SLH-44 I can't comment on since I didn't give those guns their stats or were notified about them being added.

As for the BAR, again- most expensive gun in the game, not much can be done as a result. Your suggestion of reducing its damage even by 0.5 would remove the 4 shot kill potential of the gun, making it a 5 shot kill which would put it in the same category as any previously 8-9 damage gun (M4, Ghost M4, Vector etc) and would remove all of its value.

As for my staff activity, there really isn't anything for me to do. I want to make and release new guns but at this stage doing so would be pointless due to the limited stat variables and any new gun added would effectively be a full priced skin of another gun with exception to any hotkeys its given. I have suggested many new variables (eg bullet range, random damage calculator, bullet speeds) and have been waiting since Christmas last year for a new gun related system to be added that would allow me to add new things, but no progress has been made despite my occasional nagging to the scripters.

Hey Bitzsam, can you please look into the second, dual mode of the gun PGM338 from 2018 halloween? Its only dealing 6.5 damage to players when it's supposed to deal 9.5 damage instead, please fix.

Literally Quit Gun Admin.

Imagine complaining about a Gun Admin when most of you guys would only change stats of guns you like or currently have. A lot of people are bias when it comes to guns, Bitzsam, who is basically a neutral player doesn't have to do anything. There was a little outbreak about the change, but now it's all over. Either you're new, returning, or just an old fashion complainer, the guns are fine as is.

Bro, This mans need to get fired lmao. Period.

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

I'm not active on my player account because my ipad is broken. I still check here and discord daily. The point of the large gun rebalance was so that gun stats could effectively be finalised and didn't need to be tweaked randomly- As was a common complaint by players when individual guns had to be rebalanced multiple times.

A-91 is good yea, don't see the issue with it remaining so. It's balanced accordingly with guns comparable to its price eg-UMP45 and is a good, cheaper option for those who were against the P2W aspect of the game.

Black Lotus and the SLH-44 I can't comment on since I didn't give those guns their stats or were notified about them being added.

As for the BAR, again- most expensive gun in the game, not much can be done as a result. Your suggestion of reducing its damage even by 0.5 would remove the 4 shot kill potential of the gun, making it a 5 shot kill which would put it in the same category as any previously 8-9 damage gun (M4, Ghost M4, Vector etc) and would remove all of its value.

As for my staff activity, there really isn't anything for me to do. I want to make and release new guns but at this stage doing so would be pointless due to the limited stat variables and any new gun added would effectively be a full priced skin of another gun with exception to any hotkeys its given. I have suggested many new variables (eg bullet range, random damage calculator, bullet speeds) and have been waiting since Christmas last year for a new gun related system to be added that would allow me to add new things, but no progress has been made despite my occasional nagging to the scripters.

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Hmm well Laser Tag was added. The bullets on the laser guns seem to be “the speed of light”. The game mode is weird and could probably use your help to balance it more. The events shop was also added and a bunch of the new expensive guns there are so so bad. I’m talking 90 ec+ guns that are worse than an M4. So many people have complained about them. Borius won the first 95 ec Engineer’s Rifle after the release in a 200 man spar tourney and that thing is so bad. The SLH-46 is a great gun, its basically an Mtar X, MP7 and Usp .45 all in one. I think a bunch of the exotic weapons need major buffs as they are only rare at this point and still lose to a BAR most of the time which is not balanced considering the exotic weapons cost 200k+ a super rare coin.

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

I'm not active on my player account because my ipad is broken. I still check here and discord daily. The point of the large gun rebalance was so that gun stats could effectively be finalised and didn't need to be tweaked randomly- As was a common complaint by players when individual guns had to be rebalanced multiple times.

A-91 is good yea, don't see the issue with it remaining so. It's balanced accordingly with guns comparable to its price eg-UMP45 and is a good, cheaper option for those who were against the P2W aspect of the game.

Black Lotus and the SLH-44 I can't comment on since I didn't give those guns their stats or were notified about them being added.

As for the BAR, again- most expensive gun in the game, not much can be done as a result. Your suggestion of reducing its damage even by 0.5 would remove the 4 shot kill potential of the gun, making it a 5 shot kill which would put it in the same category as any previously 8-9 damage gun (M4, Ghost M4, Vector etc) and would remove all of its value.

As for my staff activity, there really isn't anything for me to do. I want to make and release new guns but at this stage doing so would be pointless due to the limited stat variables and any new gun added would effectively be a full priced skin of another gun with exception to any hotkeys its given. I have suggested many new variables (eg bullet range, random damage calculator, bullet speeds) and have been waiting since Christmas last year for a new gun related system to be added that would allow me to add new things, but no progress has been made despite my occasional nagging to the scripters.

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Saying that a 12 damage bar (as opposed to 12.5) would be the same as an m4 is totally neglecting the fact that other stats such as clip, freeze, firerate, reload speeds etc. even matter. As a matter of fact, that 0.5 damage nerf will give you room to buff it’s other stats while still making it a gun worth 200k gralats. The gun is not a reward gun, and treating it like era’s little privileged baby only reinforces the P2W aspect that you’re trying to disprove. I know full well that reducing the damage by 0.5 will make it a 5-shot-kill gun, and thats the point. This change wont render bar useless and as i said you can still buff it’s other stats if it feels like it does. Nerfing it will show players that the game is not P2W and that Bar, while being the other most expensive gun in the game, should not be a free pass to the top of the food chain, but rather a gateway to harder-to-earn reward guns that should ultimately be better.

The gun is way too overpowered and too many people have it. Thats the issue.

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Originally Posted by Darkshadow

Hmm well Laser Tag was added. The bullets on the laser guns seem to be “the speed of light”. The game mode is weird and could probably use your help to balance it more. The events shop was also added and a bunch of the new expensive guns there are so so bad. I’m talking 90 ec+ guns that are worse than an M4. So many people have complained about them. Borius won the first 95 ec Engineer’s Rifle after the release in a 200 man spar tourney and that thing is so bad. The SLH-46 is a great gun, its basically an Mtar X, MP7 and Usp .45 all in one. I think a bunch of the exotic weapons need major buffs as they are only rare at this point and still lose to a BAR most of the time which is not balanced considering the exotic weapons cost 200k+ a super rare coin.

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In my opinion there is no issue with the laser tag bullets. Realistically speaking, lasers ARE the speed of light, but the way i see it its that said bullet speed create a fair ground where dodging is completely taken out of the equation, this means that all players have an equal chance of winning or losing a 1v1 battle. That makes the game-mode more fun for everyone as opposed to just having the more experienced players dominate the newer ones. THAT’S how you apply balance, not by giving newer players an advantage.


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Originally Posted by Darkshadow

Why are exotic weapons that BitzSam creates no longer balanced? As in they aren’t balanced equally amongst each other. When you take a look at all of the exotic weapons, only 2017’s(Renegade and Armor) are the ones that stand out. They are so incredibly OP and every other exotic is just bland like any auction weapon. Sure they may be unique and rare but they are no where near as OP as they should be for their rarity and cost in shells. Only 25 of these coins are released per year and i estimate 5 or more are given to noobs that probably quit and never even realize what they own. The coins are very hard to get and the exotic weapons aren’t as great as they should be. Another weapon that isn’t balanced comes from Plasma Corp and is so hard to get that is so underwhelming is the Photon Rifle. For 200k kills and 15,000 plasma coins, it is just a horrible weapon to use. The anti matter burner is so much better and only costs 7500 coins. The Photon Rifle is the “ultimate weapon” but doesn’t live up to its expectations or name. I have heard rumors that Junz wanted it to be buffed but bitzsam didn’t allow it. Maybe he doesn’t want another “chem” in the game but this gun is certainly no where near a chem. Its not even as good as a flamethrower. Those are just some of the weapons that i believe should be rebalanced.

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They shouldnt be balanced, they should be EXOTIC and rare and weird, nothing alike other existing weapons. Thats the point. If they were all to be equal then it makes no sense for there to be more each year. I do agree with most of the stuff that you said about Plasma Corp weapons though, they are very underwhelming.


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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

I'm not active on my player account because my ipad is broken. I still check here and discord daily. The point of the large gun rebalance was so that gun stats could effectively be finalised and didn't need to be tweaked randomly- As was a common complaint by players when individual guns had to be rebalanced multiple times.

A-91 is good yea, don't see the issue with it remaining so. It's balanced accordingly with guns comparable to its price eg-UMP45 and is a good, cheaper option for those who were against the P2W aspect of the game.

Black Lotus and the SLH-44 I can't comment on since I didn't give those guns their stats or were notified about them being added.

As for the BAR, again- most expensive gun in the game, not much can be done as a result. Your suggestion of reducing its damage even by 0.5 would remove the 4 shot kill potential of the gun, making it a 5 shot kill which would put it in the same category as any previously 8-9 damage gun (M4, Ghost M4, Vector etc) and would remove all of its value.

As for my staff activity, there really isn't anything for me to do. I want to make and release new guns but at this stage doing so would be pointless due to the limited stat variables and any new gun added would effectively be a full priced skin of another gun with exception to any hotkeys its given. I have suggested many new variables (eg bullet range, random damage calculator, bullet speeds) and have been waiting since Christmas last year for a new gun related system to be added that would allow me to add new things, but no progress has been made despite my occasional nagging to the scripters.

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With BAR its to the point where you CAN’T do anything in the game if you dont own a bar. You cant base without it because everyone has a bar and you’ll easily get outclassed. You can for sure spar without it, but it still takes immeasurable effort to beat a BAR with an MP5, a gun that takes 3 years MINIMUM to obtain. You can’t do PK arenas with any other gun because absolutely everyone is using a bar and no 5-shot-kill gun can compete against it. You cant do forts because everyone is using BAR. GM4 which is only 13k gralats cheaper doesnt stand a chance against it, which totally refutes the P2W aspect you’re trying to disprove. How can you not see all of these things?. And stop hiding behind the fact that “it is the most expensive gun in the game” there are other ways to make it worth the money other than making it a 4 shot kill and you as a guns admin should know that. A 5 shot kill 12 damage bar is totally worth the money if you compare it to GM4 and Minigun. It doesnt make any sense to buy any other gun because BAR absolutely dominates all the aspects of the game.

This is not a personal attack either, this is an outcry from the community to fix what needs fixing.


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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

With BAR its to the point where you CAN’T do anything in the game if you dont own a bar. You cant base without it because everyone has a bar and you’ll easily get outclassed. You can for sure spar without it, but it still takes immeasurable effort to beat a BAR with an MP5, a gun that takes 3 years MINIMUM to obtain. You can’t do PK arenas with any other gun because absolutely everyone is using a bar and no 5-shot-kill gun can compete against it. You cant do forts because everyone is using BAR. GM4 which is only 13k gralats cheaper doesnt stand a chance against it, which totally refutes the P2W aspect you’re trying to disprove. How can you not see all of these things?. And stop hiding behind the fact that “it is the most expensive gun in the game” there are other ways to make it worth the money other than making it a 4 shot kill and you as a guns admin should know that. A 5 shot kill 12 damage bar is totally worth the money if you compare it to GM4 and Minigun. It doesnt make any sense to buy any other gun because BAR absolutely dominates all the aspects of the game.

This is not a personal attack either, this is an outcry from the community to fix what needs fixing.


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Lets make all guns do half their normal damage when in PK Arena :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kaz210

Lets make all guns do half their normal damage when in PK Arena :rolleyes:

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kazz no stop

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

I'm not active on my player account because my ipad is broken. I still check here and discord daily. The point of the large gun rebalance was so that gun stats could effectively be finalised and didn't need to be tweaked randomly- As was a common complaint by players when individual guns had to be rebalanced multiple times.

A-91 is good yea, don't see the issue with it remaining so. It's balanced accordingly with guns comparable to its price eg-UMP45 and is a good, cheaper option for those who were against the P2W aspect of the game.

Black Lotus and the SLH-44 I can't comment on since I didn't give those guns their stats or were notified about them being added.

As for the BAR, again- most expensive gun in the game, not much can be done as a result. Your suggestion of reducing its damage even by 0.5 would remove the 4 shot kill potential of the gun, making it a 5 shot kill which would put it in the same category as any previously 8-9 damage gun (M4, Ghost M4, Vector etc) and would remove all of its value.

As for my staff activity, there really isn't anything for me to do. I want to make and release new guns but at this stage doing so would be pointless due to the limited stat variables and any new gun added would effectively be a full priced skin of another gun with exception to any hotkeys its given. I have suggested many new variables (eg bullet range, random damage calculator, bullet speeds) and have been waiting since Christmas last year for a new gun related system to be added that would allow me to add new things, but no progress has been made despite my occasional nagging to the scripters.

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Adding guns to the game without your verification is a big mistake. Whoever that added these guns without your check should be fired.

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Originally Posted by JimmY1809

Adding guns to the game without your verification is a big mistake. Whoever that added these guns without your check should be fired.

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Trust me, waiting for him isn't any better either. That's exactly my issue, it's not wise nor practical to have just one person handling everything. The more the merrier.

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I agree, they need to nerf some guns and buff some others, like M16, its an 15k gun, but its completly useless compared to AK-47, which is 1,5k, making it just an total waste

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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

Saying that a 12 damage bar (as opposed to 12.5) would be the same as an m4 is totally neglecting the fact that other stats such as clip, freeze, firerate, reload speeds etc. even matter. As a matter of fact, that 0.5 damage nerf will give you room to buff it’s other stats while still making it a gun worth 200k gralats. The gun is not a reward gun, and treating it like era’s little privileged baby only reinforces the P2W aspect that you’re trying to disprove. I know full well that reducing the damage by 0.5 will make it a 5-shot-kill gun, and thats the point. This change wont render bar useless and as i said you can still buff it’s other stats if it feels like it does. Nerfing it will show players that the game is not P2W and that Bar, while being the other most expensive gun in the game, should not be a free pass to the top of the food chain, but rather a gateway to harder-to-earn reward guns that should ultimately be better.

The gun is way too overpowered and too many people have it. Thats the issue.

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I totally agree that BAR is now dominating basing, forts, pk arenas and pk in general because of the 4 hit kill capability but honestly what can Bitzsam do to it anymore. The gun has been rebalanced several times before and the community always lose their minds over it because that's apparently the only gun they use. I heard several rumours that some people even quit because of the fire rate nerf, which in my opinion the game desperately needed.

As of right now I think it only should have a 0.5 dmg reduction in sparring arenas because it's at a point now where anyone can just rush bottom with it and out spam their opponent. It kills way to fast coupled with the fact that the hit timer will always favour the BAR in terms of damage trades.

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Originally Posted by WilsonGotDis

I totally agree that BAR is now dominating basing, forts, pk arenas and pk in general because of the 4 hit kill capability but honestly what can Bitzsam do to it anymore. The gun has been rebalanced several times before and the community always lose their minds over it because that's apparently the only gun they use. I heard several rumours that some people even quit because of the fire rate nerf, which in my opinion the game desperately needed.

As of right now I think it only should have a 0.5 dmg reduction in sparring arenas because it's at a point now where anyone can just rush bottom with it and out spam their opponent. It kills way to fast coupled with the fact that the hit timer will always favour the BAR in terms of damage trades.

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Why do people keep saying that nothing can be done about it? Nowhere does it say that the gun has to be 12.5 damage. The fire rate can be brought back and reduce the damage by 0.5 and that would still make it a 200k-worth gun.

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Let’s add the wiw-89 which is like a 20k gang coin mp5

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Originally Posted by Illusions

Let’s add the wiw-89 which is like a 20k gang coin mp5

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They definitely need to nerf that thing. The gun itself looks so ugly and the gani was badly animated yet the fire rate and freeze is on par with M4a3

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Originally Posted by WilsonGotDis

They definitely need to nerf that thing. The gun itself looks so ugly and the gani was badly animated yet the fire rate and freeze is on par with M4a3

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My thoughts exactly. They need to consider that these are items that people can get by literally doing nothing inside a base and either make the items more expensive or be more considerate of their stats.

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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

My thoughts exactly. They need to consider that these are items that people can get by literally doing nothing inside a base and either make the items more expensive or be more considerate of their stats.

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lets see how broken the second group of weapons are

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Originally Posted by WilsonGotDis

They definitely need to nerf that thing. The gun itself looks so ugly and the gani was badly animated yet the fire rate and freeze is on par with M4a3

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lmao then it has a op grenade launcher with it too