Un nerf M8A1

M8A1 is currently not worth its price.
Its a gun nobody wants.
Everyone who wants a spread gun without hesitation chooses PBP Auto Rifle.
IMO it was unnecessarily nerfed couple months ago, I have repeatedly PMed Bitzsam months before to no avail.
He is highly adamant that his nerfs were the right decision.
I''m absolutely baffled by justifications, looking at the guns in its current state adding salt to wound is when you begin realise & notice how absolutely diabolical it is relative its counterparts.
This action is criminal

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Over 1/5th of your posts out of your total post count has my name within that message. At this point it's pretty ridiculous that I can expect to see your name pop up in any thread I post in.
You're very narrowminded, you make overthought and exaggerated assumptions about me, and if I wasn't over explaining myself, let alone having to respond to another one of your messages then I would tell you why that was done.

Since i'm not going to do that you can go look for yourself. You have the current stats, you can go look at its old stats and then look at its price and compare it to guns around that price. If you have any common sense/ understanding about stat values then it shouldn't even need explaining why that change, and many other changes were done

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

You don't understand the context of gun hierarchies I was referring to. I said despite the rebalanace the guns hierarchies would remain UNCHANGED. Meaning whilst the guns are each worse than before, they aren't worse than certain guns that they were better than before. Just the extent that they are better will not as be high as before.

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Compare the m8a1 for 65-68k with the sten for 65k. m8a1 used to beat it in every category, now it is evened out by only beating it in spread and freeze instead of spread, freeze, equal firerate, equal clip. Its spread is too high to have a fast firerate. If you want it to be faster then the best you'll get is 0.4 down to 0.35 with a spread decrease from 0.16 to 0.12

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Good stats but high spread can make it unreliable- High firerate with moderate freeze means you are stuck in place if you spam too much.

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Name - M8a1
Freeze - 0.175
Firerate - 0.3 0.4
Spread - 0.16
Clip - 30 16
Reload - 0.25 0.35
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Name - Sten
Freeze - 0.185
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.03
Clip - 32
Reload - 0.12
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Pre nerfs the only advantage M8A1 had over sten was 0.01 better freeze. Its spread tho huge can make it unreliable.
Sten had better clip & reload.
Both cost 65k.

To me if you look at it comparing the 2 guns pre nerf M8A1 did not ''m8a1 used to beat it in every category'' like you claimed.

Post nerf M8A1''s firerate is 0.1 slower, clip 18 compared sten 32, reload is 0.35s which is 3 times longer compared to sten which only takes 0.12s to reload.

M8A1''s only clearcut advantage is a 0.01 less freeze compared to Sten.
Both are the same price I doubt anyone would choose a 0.01 advantage over the significant disadvantages said above.

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If you really want to see something which is significantly better than all the other guns within this price range check out AB8 vs M8A1

Name - AB8
Freeze - 0.17
Firerate - 0.32
Spread - 0.07
Clip - 40
Reload - 0.12
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

AB8 0.005 less freeze, 0.08 faster firerate, 22 bullets more, reload 3 times faster 0.12 vs 0.35
Both cost the same 65k.
Clearly M8A1 is the big loser here & it contradicts your claim that the guns would maintain their hierarchy.

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Another one is FAL OSW vs M8A1

Name - FAL OSW
Freeze - 0.17
Firerate - 0.315
Spread - 0.1
Clip - 20
Reload - 0.2
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Better freeze by 0.005, faster firerate by 0.085, 2 more bullets than M8A1, & reload time two times faster.
Both cost 65k.
Where is the so called ''ripple effect'' you only nerfed M8A1 whilst leaving every other gun within than price range untouched.
You can''t possibly tell me that M8A1 is too significantly better than others in its price range.
I think if you truly used it you''ll find that its disadvantageous in most situations, which why its rarely seen to be used even less now than ever.

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F2000 vs M8A1

Name - F2000
Freeze - 0.185
Firerate - 0.28
Spread - 0.06
Clip - 28
Reload - 0.2
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Perk: Able to put the gun on your back

Less freeze by 0.01, faster firerate by 0.12, 10 more bullets, reload time two times faster.
Same price.

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PBP AutoRifle vs M8A1

Name - PBP AutoRifle
Freeze - 0.12
Firerate - 0.25
Spread - 0.165
Clip - 30
Reload - 0.4
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Despite costing $10k less PBP AutoRifle has 0.055 less freeze, firerate faster by 0.15, bigger spread by 0.005, bigger clip by 12.

PBP AutoRifle is 6 dmg compared to M8A1 is 8 dmg.
But looking at the stats it takes little thought to imagine no matter big your dmg is it doesn''t matter because if your shots don''t land, your firerate is slow, your movement is slow, your reload is slow, you have a smaller clip.
You''re gonna be pummelled.

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M8A1 is really easy & vulnerable to be cornered & rushed by PBP AutoRifle & other guns.
M8A1 is not really suited for anything weak attack weak defense this gun is highly unbalanced.
Not basing, Not good for PK, Not good for Spar, Not good for Fort, Not good for anything.

I'll buff the clip but that's the best you're going to get. Ab8 stats you posted are outdated it has been changed since then.

As I said its extreme spread is too high for a moderate- fast firerate. Yes in basing it can be unreliable which was the context I was referring to in the post you quoted me on, but in spar where it is an enclosed environment, the unpredictablility
of the bullet spread pared with a decent firerate means your opponent is stuck having to dodge all the time making it hard to shoot back which is why m8a1 was one of the strongest guns for sparring and almost a cheap gun to use as the high spread would land you hits that you wouldn't be able to get with almost any other gun.

As I said before, pre nerfed m8a1 beat the sten overall by singificant amounts. Ignore clipsize as the difference was 2 bullets which is nothing, and most people don't reload at 0 bulletd left anyway, firerate was the same but sten was extremely easy to dodge because of its moderate firerate, non existant spread.
M8a1 has less freeze and over 5x the spread which is what made the gun so strong, thus making it better overall which is why it was nerfed.

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

I'll buff the clip but that's the best you're going to get. Ab8 stats you posted are outdated it has been changed since then.

As I said its extreme spread is too high for a moderate- fast firerate. Yes in basing it can be unreliable which was the context I was referring to in the post you quoted me on, but in spar where it is an enclosed environment, the unpredictablility
of the bullet spread pared with a decent firerate means your opponent is stuck having to dodge all the time making it hard to shoot back which is why m8a1 was one of the strongest guns for sparring and almost a cheap gun to use as the high spread would land you hits that you wouldn't be able to get with almost any other gun.

As I said before, pre nerfed m8a1 beat the sten overall by singificant amounts. Ignore clipsize as the difference was 2 bullets which is nothing, and most people don't reload at 0 bulletd left anyway, firerate was the same but sten was extremely easy to dodge because of its moderate firerate, non existant spread.
M8a1 has less freeze and over 5x the spread which is what made the gun so strong, thus making it better overall which is why it was nerfed.

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PBP AutoRifle vs M8A1

Name - PBP AutoRifle
Freeze - 0.12
Firerate - 0.25
Spread - 0.165
Clip - 30
Reload - 0.4
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Despite costing $10k less PBP AutoRifle has 0.055 less freeze, firerate faster by 0.15, bigger spread by 0.005, bigger clip by 12.

PBP AutoRifle is 6 dmg compared to M8A1 is 8 dmg.
But looking at the stats it takes little thought to imagine no matter big your dmg is it doesn''t matter because if your shots don''t land, your firerate is slow, your movement is slow, your reload is slow, you have a smaller clip.
You''re gonna be pummelled.

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High spread low freeze but slow firerate & slow reload= easy to rush & be cornered.
As I said compared m8A1 to the PBP AUtoRifle.
PBP AutoRIfle beats it in all stats except the damage & its also 10k cheaper.

PBP AutoRifle has above average firerate significantly faster than a lot of the other guns even GM4. Freeze is also above average & better than M8A1.
The spread is bigger than M8A1.
Clip is also significantly better.

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Take a look at that

Name - Ghost M4
Freeze - 0.145
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.065
Clip - 17 21
Reload - 0.55
Bullets - 1
Auto - N | Y
Stacked - N

Name - BAR
Freeze - 0.2
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.08
Clip - 20
Reload - 0.5
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Name - Vector
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.45
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Name - M4a3
Freeze - 0.136
Firerate - 0.28 | 0.32
Spread - 0.04 | 0.08
Clip - 16 | 10
Reload - 0.2 | 0.1 0.35 | 0.15
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Name - Ion Carbine
Freeze - 0.14
Firerate - 0.29
Spread - 0.01
Clip - 20 10
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y N
Stacked - N

PBP AutoRifle beats all their Firerate, Freeze & clip. Less freeze & better firerate than Ion Carbine & Vector lol.

PBP AutoRifle only cost $55k & it even beats M4A3 ffs.
Better than GM4 at everything even reload speed.

M4a3 is a reward gun and it isn't 55k it's 100k so obviously it's meant to be better. The stats you provided again are also outdated anyway

As you pointed out yourself PBP auto rifle is 7 damage. You're underestimating how much of a difference damage makes. Even looking at the old Bars stats, overall they weren't that great because of how high the freeze is, yet it was op because the damage made up for it significantly. The PBP autorifle has been around for a long time, if it was really as good as you seem to think it is, then other players with the gun would have realised that, and you would be seeing a large number of people using it today. The gun is good but it isn't that great compared to the 8-9 damage guns. Doesn't matter if it has good stats, using that gun in spar disadvantages you by 2 hits from the start which against a good player is basically the game If they are using a 50-70k range 8-9 damage gun

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

M4a3 is a reward gun and it isn't 55k it's 100k so obviously it's meant to be better. The stats you provided again are also outdated anyway

As you pointed out yourself PBP auto rifle is 7 damage. You're underestimating how much of a difference damage makes. Even looking at the old Bars stats, overall they weren't that great because of how high the freeze is, yet it was op because the damage made up for it significantly. The PBP autorifle has been around for a long time, if it was really as good as you seem to think it is, then other players with the gun would have realised that, and you would be seeing a large number of people using it today. The gun is good but it isn't that great compared to the 8-9 damage guns. Doesn't matter if it has good stats, using that gun in spar disadvantages you by 2 hits from the start which against a good player is basically the game If they are using a 50-70k range 8-9 damage gun

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I meant PBP AutoRifle is 55k you misunderstood what I meant.

Actually PBP AutoRifle is quite a popular gun in spar right now.
Reason being is its high spread, high firerate, low freeze & big clip makes its bullets very hard to dodge.
Even more than M8A1, if you don''t believe me go to spar complex & spar against it using M8A1.

M8A1 the unpredictability of the bullets i.e high spread but with moderate firerate pre nerf.
Maybe with the old stats you could argue sten was more of a basing weapon & fort weapon.
& M8A1 was a spar weapon & PK, didnt''t matter if numerically certain stats were higher the fact the spread was so huge put it in a totally different idealised situational strength.

Now in its current state it is neither an ideal spar or anything gun reason being the firerate is so slow.
You can''t even clutch with the gun.
Which why I say its easy to rush it, high spread & low freeze but slow firerate puts it hugely on the defensive side most the time using something like PBP Autorifle could easily over power it because even the defence is not that good because we can''t hold our position because of slow firerate we can''t cluth we just get slowly boxed into a smaller & smaller box until we''re cornered.

Now use wise its a nothing gun that is heavily unbalanced.
Sub par in most circumstances mediocre in most situations.
Its like adjusting your multiplex high gun spread even tho statistically its the same as every other, but use wise it gets you killed in most circumstances because the rest of your stats are 0.

Also I think you are underestimating how good Pbp AutoRifle is currently maybe pre the great gun Nerf the extra dmg meant a lot but right now things are different go vs any decent PBP AutoRifle gun user in spar complex & you''ll see what I mean.


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Honestly Bitzsam for 10k less with those kind of stats vs M8A1 I bet you 10k gralats that PBP AutoRifle takes the sh!t on M8A1.
Its PBP AutoRifle 8 shots to kill vs M8A1 6 shots to kill.
Because of its slow firerate you''re going to be on the run most the time until you''re cornered.

Try this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Compare the m8a1 for 65-68k with the sten for 65k. m8a1 used to beat it in every category, now it is evened out by only beating it in spread and freeze instead of spread, freeze, equal firerate, equal clip. Its spread is too high to have a fast firerate. If you want it to be faster then the best you'll get is 0.4 down to 0.35 with a spread decrease from 0.16 to 0.12

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Spread decrease but faster firerate.