READ- Weapon Rebalancing

[BiTzSam]

Doing an overhaul of the higher tier weapons is something i've been considering for a little while. The problem I have is with a few guns in particular that I see as weapons that have overly high stats just for the sake of it when one stat variable alone would have been enough to make it worth its price.

The problem with these guns in a 2D game especially considering the server issues a lot of people have is that it's the same repetitive format of everyone using the BAR/P2k/PSG1 for basing, everyone using the Ion Carbine/ GM4/ P2K for sparring etc. None of these guns are fun to fight against. All it comes down to is who lag spikes/ has a hit delay that allows them to be outspammed. It isn't about skill or dodging, it's literally who can get to the bottom first and have a spammier gun to stop the other person from getting down there and shoot up/down until eventually the other person loses.
The reason why a lot of sparrers still like to use the M4 even though it is worse than most guns they are against is because it is more enjoyable to use as it requires skill on when to shoot/ dodge, same when fighting against it.

The fact is, actual PKing/basing/sparring is dying on era. There are more people afking in start, roleplaying in astros or trading than there are players basing/ sparring combined. This game is about gun combat, those other features are fine but combat is what should be the main part of the game that most people partake in. Currently the only people doing any combat are people with high tier guns as they can dominate anyone that doesn't have a gun close- equal what they are using.


the TLDR is I want to rebalance certain guns that are on the higher spectrum, decrease certain stats, mainly firerate so that gameplay is more competitive. Obviously the majority is going to be against this preposition as unfortunately they will only have the mindset that any changes will mean their gun is not worth what they paid/ want their gun to be as OP as possible so that they can continue to put in less effort into having the ability to actually play the game. All games get rebalances/ stat changes I will be making sure despite the rebalance that the higher tier guns will maintain their hierarchy- meaning that eg BAR will still be better than GM4/ shipka just to a lesser extent. You paid for the guns strength, not the stats hence why actual statistics aren't displayed ingame as they are subject to change- and the guns will still maintain their strength.

- Rather than complain I suggest you post suggestions/ what you want to see changed as this is your opportunity to provide feedback. Changes will most likely occur unless something comes up so don't waste your opportunity to have a say on comments regarding refunds/ don't nerf things along those lines as they probably won't be acknowledged.


Here are the changes so far that I would like to see added- you can say if you think a change is too little/ too much providing you give an alternative that isn't just "keep it how it is" and your reason for that alternative.
(the bold text is the new stat- refer to https://www.era-go.com/forum/showthr...ated-Gun-Stats if you need explanations on what the variables mean (whether higher numbers on freeze/ firerate are better or worse)

Name - Ghost M4
Freeze - 0.145
Firerate - 0.265 0.3
Spread - 0.05 0.065
Clip - 17 21
Reload - 0.4 0.55
Bullets - 1
Auto - N | Y
Stacked - N

Reason- The GM4 already has the best (lowest) freeze rate of any other 9 damage gun in the game, the extremely high firerate was overkill especially in addition to its already high clip size. The AUTO feature was an oversight as it allowed people to easily spam the weapon, with the freeze/ firerate giving next to no room to avoid any of the bullets effectively resulting in the gun being used as a bullet wall/ cornering gun that relies heavily on spamming the person to the point that they have no room to fight back. The higher spread/ slower firerate should help to give the occasional gap in the bullet wall that can allow for the opponent to dodge. The clip increase allows for a substantial amount of ammo at the cost of a higher reload time to reduce the incentive of spamming and provide breathing room when the user runs out of ammo.
- Auto promotes the spam of the gun, changing it back to how it used to be. Because of this i'll probably give the GM4 a new ability such as onback/ maybe a knife to fill in for the lack of auto

Name - Ion Carbine
Freeze - 0.14
Firerate - 0.25 0.3
Spread - 0.01
Clip - 20
Reload - 0.2 0.475
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Reason- These changes were made for the same reason as the GM4, whilst retaining a slightly higher firerate at the cost of Auto fire, as well as a slightly lower freeze rate to compensate for it not being a buyable item that any player can instantly access

Name - BAR
Freeze - 0.2
Firerate - 0.24 0.3
Spread - 0.062 0.08
Clip - 20
Reload - 0.35 0.5
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Reason- The BAR has always had an excessively high firerate despite it being one of the higher damaging guns in the game. Its relatively medium reload with a large clip allowed for it to be easily spammed and out damage most opponents. Its freezerate is higher than most but not enough for it to be anything significant against most guns with the exception of higher tier 9 damage weapons with freeze rates of 0.15 and below. Despite its slight disadvantage against lower freeze guns, in 1v1 situations the BAR user had room for error due to its ability to kill in 1 less bullet which forces opponents to be more careful as the BAR will almost always win. The lower firerate will combat the BARs spam effectiveness in bases, allowing for a chance to rush the BAR user if they are not careful enough to shoot in the right directions/ react fast enough. The higher spread/ reload time will give more potential to dodge shots however the higher spread in some cases may serve to benefit the BAR user from a bullet going in a direction the opponent may not have expected.

Name- P2K
Freeze - 0.1275 | 0.1475 0.14 | 0.1475
Firerate - 0.265 | 0.2 0.29 | 0.255
Spread - 0
Clip - 16 | 32 10 | 20
Reload - 0.15 0.45
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Reason- single variant of the gun had overly strong stats for its price. The gun cost 100k and had better stats than the GM4 at 187k. Yes the gun is a reward gun but the price difference does not justify how much better it is. At the least it should be more on the equal side/ slightly better/ worse in some area, with the benefit being the low cost.
Dual version had unrealistic stats, extremely high clip- 2nd highest in the game with the lowest reload time in the game- constant spam weapon. Paired with the equal highest firerate of any 9 damage gun in the game- its stats were too extreme especially for the PK requirement. I agree it shouldn't have been sold for 100k each- wasn't my decision, can't change gun prices unfortunately so this will have to do. Gun still retains better stats than the GM4- effectively becoming what the GM4 used to be but not as readily accessible to the majority of players because of its PK requirements.

Name - MTARX
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.2 0.265
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 25 17
Reload - 0.35
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y N
Stacked - N

Reason- relatively the same as the P2Ks reasoning, lower clip size/ freeze rate due to it not being a reward gun- gun was intended as a very exclusive gun which is why it had such good stats, was unfortunately over hosted by staff not aware of this and so the higher stats were no longer really justified.

Name - Rafor
Freeze - 0.145
Firerate - 0.27 0.3
Spread - 0.065
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.2 0.4
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Reason- Effectively the same stats as the GM4 so same reasons, slightly higher firerate due to it being an exclusive auction weapon, countered anyway by the lower clip size.

Name - MP5a5
Freeze - 0.105
Firerate - 0.26 0.28
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 18
Reload - 0.4
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Reason- Increasing firerate to bring it inline with the other firerate increases. Low freeze rate justified by the high requirements.

Name - Shipka
Freeze - 0.21
Firerate - 0.29
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 20 15
Reload - 0.15 0.35
Bullets - 2
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Reason- not too much wrong with the gun statistically aside from the extremely low reload time paired with excessive clip size for a gun with relatively high spread, firing 2 bullets. Allows for too much bullet streaming with little to no consequence of spamming constantly. Longer reload/ smaller clip size should slightly remedy that, allowing more openings during reload to engage the user

Name - Souizen/ FMG9/ BAG
Freeze - 0.12
Firerate - 0.25 0.32
Spread - 0.06
Clip - 12
Reload - 0.4
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Reasoning- again, bringing firerate inline with other weapons, freeze rate justified by its auction exclusivity and low clip size paired with a higher reload time.

Name - PSG1
Freeze - 0.23
Firerate - 0.28
Spread - 0
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1
Auto - N No
Stacked - N

Reason- Higher freeze/ PK requirement allows for the higher firerate compared to the BAR, countered by the lower clipsize and lack of auto fire in standing mode to decrease the incentive to hold fire spam.

Name - Vector
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.29 0.3
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.3 0.45
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Reason- Slight increase to compensate for m4a3 nerfs so that vector does not become 'better' as a result

Name - PBP
Freeze - 0.4
Firerate - 0.4
Spread - 0.15
Clip - 5
Reload - 0.23 0.4
Bullets - 4
Auto - N
Stacked - Y

Name - M4a3
Freeze - 0.136
Firerate - 0.25 | 0.28 0.2875 | 0.32
Spread - 0.04 | 0.08
Clip - 16 | 10 18 | 10
Reload - 0.2 | 0.1 0.35 | 0.15
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Reason- bringing firerate up as with other 9 damage guns. Maintains slightly higher firerate/ lower freeze to compensate for its Spar requirements and spread. Clip slightly increased due to the slight reload time increase.

That's the changes so far that I have considered- keep in mind to compare the new stats of the gun with new stats of the other guns, knowing that whilst the BAR won't be as good, the GM4 necessarily won't be either, therefore they will still remain in the current position of "what gun is better" as they currently are just to a lesser extent.
Changes may lead to people using a greater range of guns than before, changing the META of peoples loadouts so it isn't just- bar, ion, gm4, p2k and the occasional vector/ m4.

[MikeyUK]

I'm all for weapon balancing since it removes the whole idea of the game being pay to win.

One thing I would suggest is for movement speed to be impacted on certain heavier guns, such as the Minigun or the PBP, maybe even the BAR.

Another thing I would suggest is to decrease clip size by a small tad on certain weapons such as the GM4 to prevent spamming. That and maybe more freeze time.

[iMagicBae]

Name - M4a3
Freeze - 0.136
Firerate - 0.25 | 0.28 0.27 | 0.3
Spread - 0.04 | 0.08
Clip - 16 | 10 18 | 10
Reload - 0.2 | 0.1 0.35 | 0.15
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Reason- bringing firerate up as with other 9 damage guns. Maintains slightly higher firerate/ lower freeze to compensate for its Spar requirements and spread. Clip slightly increased due to the slight reload time increase.

That's the changes so far that I have considered- keep in mind to compare the new stats of the gun with new stats of the other guns, knowing that whilst the BAR won't be as good, the GM4 necessarily won't be either, therefore they will still remain in the current position of "what gun is better" as they currently are just to a lesser extent.
Changes may lead to people using a greater range of guns than before, changing the META of peoples loadouts so it isn't just- bar, ion, gm4, p2k and the occasional vector/ m4.
I think these changes will be a good start but of course considering the amount and the fact that I can't really test them in a gameplay environment I can't be sure if the changes are too little until I actually make the changes but I think they should be fine.

Why did you make the firerate slower? it is the main problem when combating the GM4, that they both have nearly the same Firerate. In any case the firerate should've been kept the same and the freeze should have been decreased along with a better reload, this because:
1. As the gun has a requirement, it should be slightly better than any other alike stock gun.
2. There is less people with M4a3 than there is with GM4, therefore you are allowing a majority to have an advantage against what should be a privileged minority (anyone who owns an M4a3). Since there is a minority that would be privileged with an M4a3 statistically better than a GM4 there should be no complaints for this advantage, as i said, is not overpopulated and its not too overpowered. Instead, you are making us shoot slower and reload slower just because you are giving us 2 extra bullets that we don't need because we used to have a better reload.

[BiTzSam]

Why did you make the firerate slower? it is the main problem when combating the GM4, that they both have nearly the same Firerate. In any case the firerate should've been kept the same and the freeze should have been decreased along with a better reload, this because:
1. As the gun has a requirement, it should be slightly better than any other alike stock gun.
2. There is less people with M4a3 than there is with GM4, therefore you are allowing a majority to have an advantage against what should be a privileged minority (anyone who owns an M4a3). Since there is a minority that would be privileged with an M4a3 statistically better than a GM4 there should be no complaints for this advantage, as i said, is not overpopulated and its not too overpowered. Instead, you are making us shoot slower and reload slower just because you are giving us 2 extra bullets that we don't need because we used to have a better reload.

Stop trying to justify a way to buff the m4a3 to be even better than it already is. I said these changes would not impact the guns heirarchy. M4a3 is 100k and has a hand flip feature. Despite being 87k cheaper it still has less freeze, faster firerate, faster reload. Doesn't matter how big/ small the difference between the two are, m4a3 still has statistically better stats. It doesn't need to be drastically better to justify its price and requirements even if it had identicle stats to the gm4, you would still be getting it for 87k cheaper which would have been enough to warrant it being a reward item.

Doesn't matter how many people own the m4a3, it's not a limited gun, as time goes by more and more people will get it until you see the majority of sparrers using it like with the vector

[N!chola$]

I disagree with this, yes it maybe the right thing but by doing this you are gonna make most of the veteran players leave. Yes some of them leave because of real life problems, thinking of their future, etc; however, some of them leave because their favorite weapon gets changed (stat wise) and they try to adapt to another gun but can't and quit.

I might just quit in general cuz bar was mentioned in there.

Although I can see where you're coming from...you want the new players to have more of a chance and it to be a little more fair.
But you also said a while back that you wanted to add a better gun then bar. SO depending if that gun is as good bar or better I'll have my iTunes on hold till then.

[BiTzSam]

I disagree with this, yes it maybe the right thing but by doing this you are gonna make most of the veteran players leave. Yes some of them leave because of real life problems, thinking of their future, etc; however, some of them leave because their favorite weapon gets changed (stat wise) and they try to adapt to another gun but can't and quit.

I might just quit in general cuz bar was mentioned in there.

Although I can see where you're coming from...you want the new players to have more of a chance and it to be a little more fair.
But you also said a while back that you wanted to add a better gun then bar. SO depending if that gun is as good bar or better I'll have my iTunes on hold till then.

No I said I would never add a gun that was better than the bar.
Old players are a dying number because of how unwelcoming the game is. Readjusting to a weapon doesn't exactly take long, and if they choose to quit simply because they can't use a bit of skill rather than relying 95% on their gun then that says a lot about the kind of players they are and the games honestly better off without them

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What about the metalstorm? And wait the shipka's clip should be 40 right?

The clip size shown it how many bullets it fires, shipka has 40 yes but because it fires 2 at once you only shoot 20 times

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I personally think that the player kill reward guns should not be nerfed, it take a lot of time and effort to get 100k+ kills. I also beleive that the Ec weapons should not be nerfed it also takes a lot of skill to get all of those ec!

Skill to get ec in events yes but that shouldn't mean you can get guns that don't require skill to use in pk.

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I'm against this but honestly if you want to change most of the high tier guns its okay, not showing bias toward or against one gun.

Did you read the post lol? There isn't just one gun being changed, it's pretty much all the high firerate 9 damage guns

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Sam you obviously don't know why multiplex was made, so let me explain it to you. People using spam guns in complex, anero and meph make multiplex for skill based play and leave the complex for anyone that wants to be at an advantage or disadvantage. You're trying so hard to make the game "balanced" when it isn't working. You are seriously going to make the psg semi when that's the only thing making it unique from other snipers like the m107. Maybe instead of targeting the popular guns that in no way need a change, how about you go and fix some of the guns that really need a fix like the stacked 9 damage monster known as the mtar that has the kill power of a flamethrower if not better. Only guns in this game that need to be balanced are the p2ks since they're extremely underpowered for 200k gralets and 100k kills.

1. EC weapons arnt free so stop treating them like starter pistols.

2. No one likes your new ideas, please stick with classic era and if you want a change, setup a pole and see what the community as a whole wants.

3. People don't use m4 because it's fun dodging, they use it because it improves your skill since therefore making you beat faster spam guns easier.

4. As a gun admin you seem like you don't really know much about guns. The gm4 is basically an m4 that can switch firemodes to change the play style, but if you're going to make it only semi that will make a 187k m4?

Multiplex is for sparring, this change isn't making every gun equal just not as strong as before and this is for everything not just for sparring.
EC weapons ARE free unless you are paying someone to play for you on your account which would be very questionable.

Stop speaking as if you are the voice of the people, not everybody is on one side or the other

Don't know how you can say I don't know much about guns and then say gm4 is an auto version of the m4 in the same sentence. The only thing the gm4 and m4 have in common is they have m4 in their names. Neither of their stats are anything alike. You mayaswell say that the tec9 is basically a semi version of the mtarx with that logic

[Key]

[QUOTE=BiTzSam;420350]No I said I would never add a gun that was better than the bar.
Old players are a dying number because of how unwelcoming the game is. Readjusting to a weapon doesn't exactly take long, and if they choose to quit simply because they can't use a bit of skill rather than relying 95% on their gun then that says a lot about the kind of players they are and the games honestly better off without them

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The clip size shown it how many bullets it fires, shipka has 40 yes but because it fires 2 at once you only shoot 20 times

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Skill to get ec in events yes but that shouldn't mean you can get guns that don't require skill to use in pk.

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Did you read the post lol? There isn't just one gun being changed, it's pretty much all the high firerate 9 damage guns

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Multiplex is for sparring, this change isn't making every gun equal just not as strong as before and this is for everything not just for sparring.
EC weapons ARE free unless you are paying someone to play for you on your account which would be very questionable.

Stop speaking as if you are the voice of the people, not everybody is on one side or the other

Don't know how you can say I don't know much about guns and then say gm4 is an auto version of the m4 in the same sentence. The only thing the gm4 and m4 have in common is they have m4 in their names. Neither of their stats are anything alike. You mayaswell say that the tec9 is basically a semi version of the mtarx with that logic[/
QUOTE]

Then 28 is the new clip for shipka then.

[Grandpa Illusions]

Yeah Sam, I stated that you're not showing bias.

[Regae1]

Honestly I agree with the majority of the community on the most part, I honestly agree with you bitz that sparring was getting out of hand, and it did stop me from sparring when all I saw was Chems and ions and I reckon you would have to rebalance and nerf those weapons, But I don't see the point of nerfing Gm4 and other non ec guns for sparring, And like the community said, If you don't like what's happening at the complex why was multiplex created?? And I honestly disagree with how you have just gone ahead and nerfed every gun you felt like nerfing... like seriously maybe you should ask what the community thinks about your desicion instead of jumping the gun and doing what you feel is right.And I also don't see the point of Nerfing pk guns... that's the worst idea of all... I see why you went ahead and nerfed sparring guns to make it fair since your in a tiny box but pking is basically the whole map... there's no point in nerfing pk guns... like seriously there's so unfair advantage when your pking... you use whatever gun that suits you for pking, there's no "OP" pk gun... chem is good but basically only for forts... I mean you can basically use any gun to pk, but obviously the better guns are more expansive which is the point of the game... You get what you earn, and your basically making starters on the same level as veterans to make them happy? Obviously if something is op in a game rebalance it but don't rebalance every gun without even asking what the community thinks about it... I started playing era since 2010... And I just jumped on the forums and made an account after I heard they nerfing guns... and you said you were up for suggestions, well don't nerf ec weapons.... they take time to earn, And your basically just nerfing them because you couldn't get them yourself... and for example if a weapon in sparring is overly used and op, like Ion carbine or Chem, then don't make a weapon like that in the first place.. don't nerf the gun after like 1/4 of sparers have it... and another suggestion is leave pk weapons and ec weapons the same... Dont ruin the game even more.

[BiTzSam]

Honestly I agree with the majority of the community on the most part, I honestly agree with you bitz that sparring was getting out of hand, and it did stop me from sparring when all I saw was Chems and ions and I reckon you would have to rebalance and nerf those weapons, But I don't see the point of nerfing Gm4 and other non ec guns for sparring, And like the community said, If you don't like what's happening at the complex why was multiplex created?? And I honestly disagree with how you have just gone ahead and nerfed every gun you felt like nerfing... like seriously maybe you should ask what the community thinks about your desicion instead of jumping the gun and doing what you feel is right.And I also don't see the point of Nerfing pk guns... that's the worst idea of all... I see why you went ahead and nerfed sparring guns to make it fair since your in a tiny box but pking is basically the whole map... there's no point in nerfing pk guns... like seriously there's so unfair advantage when your pking... you use whatever gun that suits you for pking, there's no "OP" pk gun... chem is good but basically only for forts... I mean you can basically use any gun to pk, but obviously the better guns are more expansive which is the point of the game... You get what you earn, and your basically making starters on the same level as veterans to make them happy? Obviously if something is op in a game rebalance it but don't rebalance every gun without even asking what the community thinks about it... I started playing era since 2010... And I just jumped on the forums and made an account after I heard they nerfing guns... and you said you were up for suggestions, well don't nerf ec weapons.... they take time to earn, And your basically just nerfing them because you couldn't get them yourself... and for example if a weapon in sparring is overly used and op, like Ion carbine or Chem, then don't make a weapon like that in the first place.. don't nerf the gun after like 1/4 of sparers have it... and another suggestion is leave pk weapons and ec weapons the same... Dont ruin the game even more.

There's no such thing as a 'pk' or 'spar' aside from the chemgun as you can use every gun in either.
You can't just leave a gun that is OP in spar because it isn't as strong in bases as it is ruining the sparring side. Same goes for the opposite. That's why a medium has to be found in the nerf. And no the solution of "change the stats for spar but leave them in pk" isn't a legitimate alternative as even if it could be done you have the same gun that is performing differently in each aspect of the game which over complicates things

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The patches haven't even been out for a day. You can't ask for them to be changed back when you haven't even gotten used to how the gun works. People complaining the BAR nerf was to significant I can guarantee are just hold firing the gun as if you actually used the gun, and found the new tap fire pattern for the bar you would find that it can be shot significantly faster than holding auto.

I used the bar for 5 minutes and got accused of having a modified bar with the old stats on my account because of the speed I was shooting the BAR in semi compared to him using it by holding auto