READ- Weapon Rebalancing

[Czar Misago]

GM4 was semi on release. I only added the auto feature because I reduced the clip size and thought if people used auto the gun wouldn't be as spammy as auto fire is slower than tap firing. But because the gm4 already had a high firerate and low freeze, whilst auto was slower, it still wasnt slow enough for there to be any gaps in between the shots so it basically made it worse to spar against

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1. I do pk, I do spar, I do base. I wasn't always staff, I was a player from release for several years, whilst yes the majority of the guns I make I do get for free, that doesn't mean I have never spent any money on what I own. Guns like the bar, pbp, shipka, souizen etc I had paid for myself. The difference is I am willing for those guns that I have bought/ made to be nerfed because of the benefits it will have to the game that you are unable to see. You and most other players are biased because you bought/ have the guns that are being effected. As I said in this thread, obviously most of you will be against nerfs because you think you are being ripped off. Same reason in other p2w games when nerfs happen it is usually just applied, and listed in a changelog you have to find yourself, with no community discussion as the developers know most will oppose it to protect their own self interests.

2. Catering to newer players/ players who can't afford to spend $60-70 just to compete are what's best for the game. Graal has no marketing, any new players that join the game are from other servers or from word of mouth. There are more people leaving the game than joining and that's because new players get dominated because their guns do nothing against the bar/ gm4 etc that most of the active pkers in the game use. Just imagine if a big game reviewer reviewed graal. What do you think they would say? I could guarantee you it would be along the lines of "game is p2w, you have no chance to participate in the pking aspect of the game unless you fork out a large portion of money, don't play this game you're better off buying an actual game for the same price as a virtual gun."
And for that reason, that is why new players on graal don't pk or base or spar, that's why there are so many traders, astros rpers and start afkers- because you don't need to spend money to compete doing those things.
The more new players are catered for, the more likely they are to pk/ base/ spar, means more players participating in those activities.
The player count may look like it hasn't decreased, but the actual number of people pking, sparring, basing has. Spar arenas are empty with the exception of 2-4 in complex. And that mostly consists of the same people daily, and they are all older players going for reward items. Bases are empty because there are so few people attacking bases that it's easy to just make an alliance and afk in a base. Overworld pking is probably the least impacted but that's due to guns that are effective at that eg- aa12 aren't as expensive and are more accessible to players

3. As for basing being a problem because of alliances look at it this way. The alliances are able to happen because there are not many gangs basing, as in there are enough bases on the map for the main gangs to hold and have those alliances and not enough gangs without a base that can have enough people to take them. If there are more people making gangs, pking and basing as a result of more new players trying to compete because the p2w gap is lowered, that means there will be more gangs fighting for those bases, and the alliances won't be able to hold as strongly as there will be more new gangs fighting for control of the bases than there are "old" gangs in alliances to keep up with.
Look at how basing was when the game was released, there were so many different gangs, and so many people basing that there were no alliances.

Currently there are roughly 12-15 'main' gangs that are actively basing. This is referring to gangs in the top scores that are still actively trying to gain hours for rewards. There are 9 bases. That means if 9 of the lets say 13 gangs are in a base each, with an alliance with eachother that means that there are 4 gangs not in an alliance that are without a base. They can't get a base because if they attack one, the alliance gangs will come and back them up. (The alliances are only possible because at most only 2-3 bases are being attacked by a gang that poses an actual threat. This leaves the other 5-6 gangs in the alliances that aren't currently being attacked to send members to help them out because they don't have to worry about defending their own base because nobody is attacking it).
- now look at it this way, there are 9 gangs in the alliance holding a base each and there are 20-30 active gangs as a result of the changes, and more people participating in basing. Those 9 gangs cant make an alliance with those 20-30 other gangs because those 20-30 are without a base. If the 20-30 gangs are fighting for a base, the gangs in the 9 alliance won't be able to call for help because all the other bases would also be being attacked because of how many gangs there are fighting for control.
More active gangs = no more alliances

If you want me to continue acknowledging your posts actually read my response in full. Don't just skim over it. Sick of repeating myself

You actually sound retarded lol so because those gangs can't get a base you want to nerf guns? your logic makes no sense this is why graal is barely successful as a game because of admins like you some of you forget that this games #1 job is to make money to keep the server running, so nerfing guns to the point that no one will buy them seems contradictory to trying to run a business but what do i know not like all those other games got big by listening to their community and stuff

[BiTzSam]

You actually sound retarded lol so because those gangs can't get a base you want to nerf guns? your logic makes no sense this is why graal is barely successful as a game because of admins like you some of you forget that this games #1 job is to make money to keep the server running, so nerfing guns to the point that no one will buy them seems contradictory to trying to run a business but what do i know not like all those other games got big by listening to their community and stuff

So obvious you are just trying to protect your own interests (AKA my bar should remain unbeatable by any gun of lesser value 9/10 times) of keeping your unjustified significant advantage over other players purely because you paid money by bringing out the 'business' argument. You don't own graal, you don't profit off the game, you have 0 reason to try and say that the servers revenue should be prioritised over the gameplay.
Would be very interested for you to actually provide an example of a P2W game that had their community dictate the games balancing.
(Your point is wrong anyway even if the guns are nerfed, it doesn't take away from the value of the gun. Using the BAR again as an example, you are paying 200k for the best gun that is available to you when you first start playing the game. Just because it's nerfed doesn't mean it still won't perform better than almost all other guns in the game, it just will perform better instead of insanely better)

Stop trying to put the point across that these changes are going to make the starter gun equal to the bar. Obviously the guns have different costs, so obviously in the hands of your average player, the more expensive guns will be stronger for them to use.
All this change is doing is making the BAR go from being 10x better than the starter pistol to 5x in addition to the other guns on the list. As stated in the thread guns hierarchies will remain unchanged by the rebalances. It's still better, and if you have two players of similar skill levels using different guns, the more expensive gun will still win. All this allows is room for those with the less expensive guns that are more skilled to potentially be able to compete/ beat the more expensive guns, but using a lot more effort to do so as their gun is worse.

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You do realize that 75% of this thread is disagreeing with you? Do you not realize that games like Call of Duty, Halo, CSGO, Battlefield all succeed because they have buyable content, you can't expect to be a god on a game without paying, and making it "more fair" it's saying something like "oh, even though you're a new player we made starter pistol just as good as bar so you have a better chance" you're tripping over your own words and not listening to the community.

Fairly convinced you have not played any games outside of graal. Call of Duty, Halo, CSGO and battlefield are not p2w games (recent call of duty being the exception- and suprisingly it's popularity has gone down because of it). Their 'buyable' content is cosmetic and has nothing to do with why they succeed. They succeed because for the most part their games are BALANCED and as a result are more satisfying to play.

Please also stop making wildly exaggerated claims, for the 5th time in this thread, despite the nerfs the guns will retain their heirarchies. BAR will not be 'better' than the starter pistol, however in your case since you are such an advocate of p2w play I wouldn't be suprised if that's to compensate a lack of actual skill of the game and then potentially yes you might get beaten by a few starter pistols

[imaginary]

You actually sound retarded lol so because those gangs can't get a base you want to nerf guns? your logic makes no sense this is why graal is barely successful as a game because of admins like you some of you forget that this games #1 job is to make money to keep the server running, so nerfing guns to the point that no one will buy them seems contradictory to trying to run a business but what do i know not like all those other games got big by listening to their community and stuff

He can release a good gun later then nerfs it
$$

[N!chola$]

Well, ill be taking my iTunes somewhere else then. I thought you would have changed your mind with how much everyone disagrees with it, especially from the feedback in-game. Everyone I asked said "That's so stupid I paid iTunes for it" or "NO, I worked my *** off for it".

#RIPEra2018

[Czar Misago]

So obvious you are just trying to protect your own interests (AKA my bar should remain unbeatable by any gun of lesser value 9/10 times) of keeping your unjustified significant advantage over other players purely because you paid money by bringing out the 'business' argument. You don't own graal, you don't profit off the game, you have 0 reason to try and say that the servers revenue should be prioritised over the gameplay.
Would be very interested for you to actually provide an example of a P2W game that had their community dictate the games balancing.
(Your point is wrong anyway even if the guns are nerfed, it doesn't take away from the value of the gun. Using the BAR again as an example, you are paying 200k for the best gun that is available to you when you first start playing the game. Just because it's nerfed doesn't mean it still won't perform better than almost all other guns in the game, it just will perform better instead of insanely better)

Stop trying to put the point across that these changes are going to make the starter gun equal to the bar. Obviously the guns have different costs, so obviously in the hands of your average player, the more expensive guns will be stronger for them to use.
All this change is doing is making the BAR go from being 10x better than the starter pistol to 5x in addition to the other guns on the list. As stated in the thread guns hierarchies will remain unchanged by the rebalances. It's still better, and if you have two players of similar skill levels using different guns, the more expensive gun will still win. All this allows is room for those with the less expensive guns that are more skilled to potentially be able to compete/ beat the more expensive guns, but using a lot more effort to do so as their gun is worse.

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Fairly convinced you have not played any games outside of graal. Call of Duty, Halo, CSGO and battlefield are not p2w games (recent call of duty being the exception- and suprisingly it's popularity has gone down because of it). Their 'buyable' content is cosmetic and has nothing to do with why they succeed. They succeed because for the most part their games are BALANCED and as a result are more satisfying to play.

Please also stop making wildly exaggerated claims, for the 5th time in this thread, despite the nerfs the guns will retain their heirarchies. BAR will not be 'better' than the starter pistol, however in your case since you are such an advocate of p2w play I wouldn't be suprised if that's to compensate a lack of actual skill of the game and then potentially yes you might get beaten by a few starter pistols

Then don't change anything we bought the gun for the stats it had not so some ego freak can change it so he can enjoy the game a little more, literally no one else complains about guns being too OP because we as players understand that the game is p2w its not pay so that someone with a way cheaper gun has a chance against you. And bringing in skill into it is completely irrelevant considering I mainly just Multiplex Spar, and have you seen you try to pk a base? Its almost as bad as Tropic Thunder

[killakev]

thanks for deleting my 1st posts, since you guys don't want to take any criticism of your decisions on here, ill make it short and sweet.

the guns are not the problem, the price of the guns are the problem that the average newer player cant afford them. You want this game to be more fair and rounded? make the best guns less expensive graalat wise and EC wise.

Yes I know that is a huge issue since the developers need the $ to keep rolling in but that's the real issue here, not that guns are OP, its that the newer/avg player can't obtain them without real money or spending months "working" on here.

the most active players that base, spar and compete regularly have the same weapons, so your argument there is invalid.

like I said before your players spend so much money (real and fake) as well as time on obtaining these weapons and then you literally rob them of it and take them away by lessening their abilities.

if you want to revive the game ADD NEW CONTENT, you've added nothing significant in years, its ridiculous to think that you're going to solve the game's popularity problems but "rebalancing the guns" ...its ridiculous man.

finish countryside, add new bases (a huge reason this game is dying, there is no new anything and no room for new gangs/players), don't mess up the ONLY things that are keeping people playing, which are the weapons they EARNED.

and please don't delete my posts again because you don't like my opinion.

[Lepto*]

I have a suggestion: ACR skin

[BiTzSam]

thanks for deleting my 1st posts, since you guys don't want to take any criticism of your decisions on here, ill make it short and sweet.

the guns are not the problem, the price of the guns are the problem that the average newer player cant afford them. You want this game to be more fair and rounded? make the best guns less expensive graalat wise and EC wise.

Yes I know that is a huge issue since the developers need the $ to keep rolling in but that's the real issue here, not that guns are OP, its that the newer/avg player can't obtain them without real money or spending months "working" on here.

the most active players that base, spar and compete regularly have the same weapons, so your argument there is invalid.

like I said before your players spend so much money (real and fake) as well as time on obtaining these weapons and then you literally rob them of it and take them away by lessening their abilities.

if you want to revive the game ADD NEW CONTENT, you've added nothing significant in years, its ridiculous to think that you're going to solve the game's popularity problems but "rebalancing the guns" ...its ridiculous man.

finish countryside, add new bases (a huge reason this game is dying, there is no new anything and no room for new gangs/players), don't mess up the ONLY things that are keeping people playing, which are the weapons they EARNED.

and please don't delete my posts again because you don't like my opinion.

Nobody deleted your post but you. It even has it listed in the moderater section that you removed it which I took as you reconsidering your opinion.

Reducing gun prices is not something that can be done. Bar was the only exception and that was within a day of its release. Besides it IS the weapons that are OP that are causing the issues. The guns are too spammy, and too high damage for their to be room for any tactics/ skill play. To use sparring for an example, the only tactic used it to get to the bottom of the arena and spam enough that they can't get low enough to be able to hit you without taking damage.

[killakev]

Nobody deleted your post but you. It even has it listed in the moderater section that you removed it which I took as you reconsidering your opinion.

Reducing gun prices is not something that can be done. Bar was the only exception and that was within a day of its release. Besides it IS the weapons that are OP that are causing the issues. The guns are too spammy, and too high damage for their to be room for any tactics/ skill play. To use sparring for an example, the only tactic used it to get to the bottom of the arena and spam enough that they can't get low enough to be able to hit you without taking damage.

if it was removed on my end it was definitely an error, but either way, I don't see where the real issues are..

you have a player count of over 2000 on at any given time, I remember when 2000 was something to get excited about, now its the norm, more people are on here than ever before, where is this game losing its popularity? just because there aren't new basing gangs or more people sparring? maybe if it was easier for new players to buy bars and op ec weapons this would be a different story

basing and sparring is dominated by experienced players using the best weapons, if you want it to be more fair, then make it more realistic for the majority of players to obtain the same weapons. the people who get dominated are the ones who don't have these weapons, not bar vs bar or gm4 vs gm4, this is what you're trying to argue here.

this is not going to increase anything other than the amount of people quitting because the guns they paid for are not the same.

you need to level the playing field in regard to everyone being able to get the same guns, not change the guns.

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if you cant change the price on guns, make a new less expensive gun that can compete with the best guns, make a knock off bar or something not quite as good but maybe the same fire rate but not same damage, etc.

I cannot support changing anything someone in a lot of cases paid real money for, after the fact. its un-ethical and in a lot of ways it is stealing from players

[Zernov]

All of us were noobs at one time that started out with a starter pistol and 0 hours. We worked our asses off to get what we have now and just because some new players are lazy and don't want to put time into the game doesn't mean you should nerf all the guns so that a 50 gralet gun can compete with a 200,000 gralet gun. This isn't call of duty, this is a 2d game.