READ- Weapon Rebalancing

[XavierXav]

This is gonna make a lot of "pros" really salty lol

[DJKilla]

I'm seeing way to much biased opinions from both sides.

[BL1NK]

The Multiplex was created to give "the illusion of skill-based play", taking away the spam and practical toxicity of weapons such as the Ion Carbine and the BAR. Don't give any excuses about how it depends on the player's skill, skill or not, it's unfair, and you'll see me mention why further on.

I changed my opinion on this when I realized that without this, the players that have giant spar kills and wins are the only ones looking to defend this, thereby they can continue to be the only ones that gain. Plus, if you glance back, they're the only ones that don't want this, you need to see the bigger picture.

Doing this is at least a start to changing the thought of "spam to win", at least give it a shot.
I see why BiTzSam is trying to do this (at least I think so), and that's because these new players don't stand a chance against older ones, and the game seems to only benefit those who are older.

Yes, it might be partially because of experience, but these weapons don't make it any better for them to get anywhere.

There's no real "versus", because from an objective POV, Multiplex is better.

I wouldn't call the skill-based part an illusion. The statistics you can set have all been tested for many months. There is no OP build. And no, people don't only use the same statistics. Of course, many go with a build focusing on high RoF but that's only because they are used to it. I've seen others go for builds focused on spread, or freeze. Just because it's not common, just because not many people do it, doesn't mean it's a worse build. If you think some guns don't require skill or effort, then that is your subjective opinion, not much more. Some people are good having incredibly low freeze, others solely rely on their fire rate. That's how it is - there's a variety of spar styles around.

The only real point that's in favor of Complex, is that there's more gun diversity. In order to keep it skill-based, we had to cap the statistic range at some point and keep it within. We can't offer overpowered EC items or other ridiculously strong weapons. And that's the point.

People who enjoy having an unfair advantage over other players, go to Complex.
The one's seeking (the illusion of) skill-based play, go to Multiplex.

There are no two opinions here - these are conclusions you'd draw from an objective point of view.

[XR]

The Multiplex was created to give "the illusion of skill-based play", taking away the spam and practical toxicity of weapons such as the Ion Carbine and the BAR. Don't give any excuses about how it depends on the player's skill, skill or not, it's unfair, and you'll see me mention why further on.

I changed my opinion on this when I realized that without this, the players that have giant spar kills and wins are the only ones looking to defend this, thereby they can continue to be the only ones that gain. Plus, if you glance back, they're the only ones that don't want this, you need to see the bigger picture.

Doing this is at least a start to changing the thought of "spam to win", at least give it a shot.
I see why BiTzSam is trying to do this (at least I think so), and that's because these new players don't stand a chance against older ones, and the game seems to only benefit those who are older.

Yes, it might be partially because of experience, but these weapons don't make it any better for them to get anywhere.

Weapons are supposed to be better cause price, and those players earned the rewards and deserve to keep them, they worked for it

[BL1NK]

Weapons are supposed to be better cause price, and those players earned the rewards and deserve to keep them, they worked for it

I totally agree with that, but according to BiTzSam, this allows the guns to have the superiority they originally had, at the cost of skill-based play. He even mentions it at the beginning of the thread.

[XR]

I totally agree with that, but according to BiTzSam, this allows the guns to have the superiority they originally had, at the cost of skill-based play. He even mentions it at the beginning of the thread.

So now we're just gonna depend on a guns stats to do the work? I'd rather use skill, and I think anyone who puts time into this game and gets a good gun should be able to use it normally without waiting for a reload

[BiTzSam]

So now we're just gonna depend on a guns stats to do the work? I'd rather use skill, and I think anyone who puts time into this game and gets a good gun should be able to use it normally without waiting for a reload

You don't seem to really understand how it works. You want it to be like BAR does 15 damage, M4 does 8 damage. Obviously this isn't realistic but my point is you want the BAR (bar being a representation of an op gun, I don't literally mean the gun itself).
In the sense that the bar is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the m4 and that's what you want guns to be like. If the bar was 13 damage, and the m4 was 12 damage, the bar is STILL BETTER, therefore still being worth a higher price than the m4 just not at such a great extent.

- - - Updated - - -

Weapons are supposed to be better cause price, and those players earned the rewards and deserve to keep them, they worked for it

Yes and the weapons still are better based on their price, just not SIGNIFICANTLY better. I don't see why you have such a hard time understanding that. The rebalanced ion carbine is still slightly better than the rebalanced gm4. Look at the stats, doesn't matter if the margin is small, it's still a margin that is higher than that of the other gun therefore making is superior.

If two guns had identicle stats/ looks but one gun had a 12 clip and the other had a 13 clip, even if the difference is so small as a 1 bullet difference, people will still use the 13 clip because that 1 bullet difference makes it better.
This rebalance is effectively making a 20 clip gun down to a 13 clip gun. It's less than before, but it's still better than the 12 clip gun

[BL1NK]

So now we're just gonna depend on a guns stats to do the work? I'd rather use skill, and I think anyone who puts time into this game and gets a good gun should be able to use it normally without waiting for a reload

Okay, if you want this to be skill-based, let it pass.
You're skilled, we get it, but with these changes, it should offer more challenges, which should make the game more entertaining while allowing players to at least have some type of chance to make it. I'm curious as to what this will do.

[PINEHONEY]

Bar's new firerate and reload is a little overkill, even with the compensation of the higher spread. I would suggest some middle ground in between the old and new stats of the bar and in general all the guns suggested. The firerates should not be toned down that much. The game combat mechanic is supposed to be pretty fast-paced compared to the other graal games. Toning this down, from a baser's point of view, only benefits the sparring scene. Basing is all about using the surroundings to your advantage, on the other hand, sparring is all about using 'skill' to out-do the enemy in a tight space. They both require 'skill', just for different reasons. This is also the reason why different guns are used depending on the format of play. 'spammier' guns are used in basing as otherwise duels may and can take ages to gratify a winner.

The suggested nerfs you provided only benefits the sparring scene. Nerfing the guns is fine, every game with a competitive player base has to accept that. However in this case, the format of 'nerfing' has to be revised. You need a middle ground between sparring and basing, not just satisfying one scene more than the other.

[Maqi]

Oh no~ Not BAR too. smh