READ- Weapon Rebalancing

[Czar Misago]

Why does sam think the game is dying because of OP guns? If anything nerfing them will kill the game even more because no one will want to itunes them. Graal is dead because they don't release anything interesting and the admins don't put as much effort into the trash they do release are sooo bad i.e. Easter shop. Basing isn't broken because we spam bars, basing is broken because all the gangs are peace and nut ride each other whenever anyone gets raided deterring anyone from even trying to base. All you're doing is making it worst. So now they sit in their peace base with a nerfed bar. Big Deal!!! br0 you're so smart to think that by nerfing guns you will fix all of graals problems geez man +1 for you.


The game can't be fixed only add new things players have too far exploited the basing system, I'm sure when admins thought about basing they didn't think everyone was going to peace and sit inside the base all day. As for sparring their is always going to be that hierarchy between the guns, the more expensive obviously the better. Nerfing their damage will only make sparring more boring than it already is.

[PBNJ]

Well, despite it being nearly useless to say anything, I'm not going to sit on the sideline and watch. This whole thread is very disappointing. The problem you are trying to fix, "actual PKing/basing/sparring is dying on era. There are more people afking in start, roleplaying in astros or trading than there are players basing/ sparring combined." is not going to be solved with any amount of gun stat shifting.

Basing has evolved to power gangs working out deals with one another so they can get hats, skins, and gang houses. Re-jiggering gun stats wont change this. The new player cant plug themselves into this system except to be used and abused by the gang owners to get what they want.
Sparring is so messed up with people working the corners of what's allowed with lagging, frame rate adjusting and all the smack talk. None of this will be fixed by gun stat rejiggering.

Graal is dying, not because the gun stats are messed up, it's dying because the only one adding any significant content is Bitzsam. And even though I frequently disagree with the content and changes he adds/makes and I think there are way to many guns in the game already, I give him credit for at least trying.

If you want to really fix the problem with Pking,Basing/and Sparring dying - the solution will not be rejiggering gun stats.
The solution will have to come from changes that make it appealing again for new players to partake in those activities. Gun stats aren't the reason why they aren't PKing, Basing, and Sparring.

[ibrian34]

Literally went on era-go to talk about this.

I agree that many guns need a nerf, but imo, shipka is one of the more balanced guns that were listed here, and I do agree about adding more reload time. My problem is that 14 clip(7 fires) and that reload just ruins it. Maybe 16 clip, or 18 clip would do, but 14 is not reasonable for this gun.

Also, if you are going to nerf the shipka, might as well nerf pbp also. 16 total damage in perfect condition and has a crazy fire rate for a gun that has this much fire power.

[BL1NK]

Literally went on era-go to talk about this.

I agree that many guns need a nerf, but imo, shipka is one of the more balanced guns that were listed here, and I do agree about adding more reload time. My problem is that 14 clip(7 fires) and that reload just ruins it. Maybe 16 clip, or 18 clip would do, but 14 is not reasonable for this gun.

Also, if you are going to nerf the shipka, might as well nerf pbp also. 16 total damage in perfect condition and has a crazy fire rate for a gun that has this much fire power.

What's the point of getting 20k spar wins when all you got was a mask? That's the way it was before reward guns and back then the spar community was significantly larger as sparring was about skill and status, not who has the spammiest guns

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no the shipka would be empty in 14 shots rather than 20 as it currently is. The stats displayed in this thread show the amount of shots a gun has not the clip

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Well as stated in the reasoning behind each of the stat changes, the main thing the rebalance does it tone down the firerates of guns with excessively high firerates paired with an already high freeze rate. Reduced firerates= less spam = more opportunity to dodge = more skill play

BiTzSam meant he'd drop the bullets fired from 40 to 28.

I completely disagree with you about the PBP, it does have a huge fire power, but at the cost of a delay in between shots and reload.

[Celestial]

I agree with all the stat changes except to gm4, well change the stat of gm4 but gm4 supposed to be switchable to semi and auto. Hmm dont listen to shis people here they are just the minority, the majority is in game right now wahahaha im pretty sure they will all agree to this, i understand your goal bisam well era is stuck with 1k-3k online and that number remain constant for a long time, your goal is to increase those active players because mostly new players find it hard to dwell

[imaginary]

Bisam

[Zernov]

As many people have said, the problem with era isn't guns. Many players are quitting because there is nothing new. Editing aspects of the game won't make it better, it'll just create more problems. Management hasn't been on in 2 months and the games slowly losing its theme and turning into classic. Sam, you don't pk, you don't base, you don't spar, so why just assume? You arent doing what's best for the game, you're doing whats best for the newer players. This game isn't suppose to be fair, those who decided to put more time into it should have the advantage. If someone spends months saving 200 EC to buy the chemical gun they should be able to dominate bases because it's 200 EC ffs. Here's some advice, don't try to change the game, improve it. Nerfing all the popular guns isn't going to improve the game, it's just going to make less people spend money on the game and you know what that results in. I remember talking to you a few months back about a broken gun that badly needed a nerf but you said that since too many people had it, the gun can't be nerfed. Are you just going to go back on your words and decide that this is the right thing to do? Whats wrong with the shipka, it's suppose to have a big clip, the gm4 is suppose to have 2 firemodes, the Psg is suppose to be automatic to add to its uniqueness, p2ks aren't even worth 100k gralets so why nerf them even more. Problem with basing is all gangs forming alliances which makes it nearly impossible for smaller gangs to base. Sparring is just pking in a box, you want skill based play and dodging, go to mpx that's why it was created.

[BiTzSam]

I agree with all the stat changes except to gm4, well change the stat of gm4 but gm4 supposed to be switchable to semi and auto. Hmm dont listen to shis people here they are just the minority, the majority is in game right now wahahaha im pretty sure they will all agree to this, i understand your goal bisam well era is stuck with 1k-3k online and that number remain constant for a long time, your goal is to increase those active players because mostly new players find it hard to dwell

GM4 was semi on release. I only added the auto feature because I reduced the clip size and thought if people used auto the gun wouldn't be as spammy as auto fire is slower than tap firing. But because the gm4 already had a high firerate and low freeze, whilst auto was slower, it still wasnt slow enough for there to be any gaps in between the shots so it basically made it worse to spar against

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As many people have said, the problem with era isn't guns. Many players are quitting because there is nothing new. Editing aspects of the game won't make it better, it'll just create more problems. Management hasn't been on in 2 months and the games slowly losing its theme and turning into classic. Sam, you don't pk, you don't base, you don't spar, so why just assume? You arent doing what's best for the game, you're doing whats best for the newer players. This game isn't suppose to be fair, those who decided to put more time into it should have the advantage. If someone spends months saving 200 EC to buy the chemical gun they should be able to dominate bases because it's 200 EC ffs. Here's some advice, don't try to change the game, improve it. Nerfing all the popular guns isn't going to improve the game, it's just going to make less people spend money on the game and you know what that results in. I remember talking to you a few months back about a broken gun that badly needed a nerf but you said that since too many people had it, the gun can't be nerfed. Are you just going to go back on your words and decide that this is the right thing to do? Whats wrong with the shipka, it's suppose to have a big clip, the gm4 is suppose to have 2 firemodes, the Psg is suppose to be automatic to add to its uniqueness, p2ks aren't even worth 100k gralets so why nerf them even more. Problem with basing is all gangs forming alliances which makes it nearly impossible for smaller gangs to base. Sparring is just pking in a box, you want skill based play and dodging, go to mpx that's why it was created.

1. I do pk, I do spar, I do base. I wasn't always staff, I was a player from release for several years, whilst yes the majority of the guns I make I do get for free, that doesn't mean I have never spent any money on what I own. Guns like the bar, pbp, shipka, souizen etc I had paid for myself. The difference is I am willing for those guns that I have bought/ made to be nerfed because of the benefits it will have to the game that you are unable to see. You and most other players are biased because you bought/ have the guns that are being effected. As I said in this thread, obviously most of you will be against nerfs because you think you are being ripped off. Same reason in other p2w games when nerfs happen it is usually just applied, and listed in a changelog you have to find yourself, with no community discussion as the developers know most will oppose it to protect their own self interests.

2. Catering to newer players/ players who can't afford to spend $60-70 just to compete are what's best for the game. Graal has no marketing, any new players that join the game are from other servers or from word of mouth. There are more people leaving the game than joining and that's because new players get dominated because their guns do nothing against the bar/ gm4 etc that most of the active pkers in the game use. Just imagine if a big game reviewer reviewed graal. What do you think they would say? I could guarantee you it would be along the lines of "game is p2w, you have no chance to participate in the pking aspect of the game unless you fork out a large portion of money, don't play this game you're better off buying an actual game for the same price as a virtual gun."
And for that reason, that is why new players on graal don't pk or base or spar, that's why there are so many traders, astros rpers and start afkers- because you don't need to spend money to compete doing those things.
The more new players are catered for, the more likely they are to pk/ base/ spar, means more players participating in those activities.
The player count may look like it hasn't decreased, but the actual number of people pking, sparring, basing has. Spar arenas are empty with the exception of 2-4 in complex. And that mostly consists of the same people daily, and they are all older players going for reward items. Bases are empty because there are so few people attacking bases that it's easy to just make an alliance and afk in a base. Overworld pking is probably the least impacted but that's due to guns that are effective at that eg- aa12 aren't as expensive and are more accessible to players

3. As for basing being a problem because of alliances look at it this way. The alliances are able to happen because there are not many gangs basing, as in there are enough bases on the map for the main gangs to hold and have those alliances and not enough gangs without a base that can have enough people to take them. If there are more people making gangs, pking and basing as a result of more new players trying to compete because the p2w gap is lowered, that means there will be more gangs fighting for those bases, and the alliances won't be able to hold as strongly as there will be more new gangs fighting for control of the bases than there are "old" gangs in alliances to keep up with.
Look at how basing was when the game was released, there were so many different gangs, and so many people basing that there were no alliances.

Currently there are roughly 12-15 'main' gangs that are actively basing. This is referring to gangs in the top scores that are still actively trying to gain hours for rewards. There are 9 bases. That means if 9 of the lets say 13 gangs are in a base each, with an alliance with eachother that means that there are 4 gangs not in an alliance that are without a base. They can't get a base because if they attack one, the alliance gangs will come and back them up. (The alliances are only possible because at most only 2-3 bases are being attacked by a gang that poses an actual threat. This leaves the other 5-6 gangs in the alliances that aren't currently being attacked to send members to help them out because they don't have to worry about defending their own base because nobody is attacking it).
- now look at it this way, there are 9 gangs in the alliance holding a base each and there are 20-30 active gangs as a result of the changes, and more people participating in basing. Those 9 gangs cant make an alliance with those 20-30 other gangs because those 20-30 are without a base. If the 20-30 gangs are fighting for a base, the gangs in the 9 alliance won't be able to call for help because all the other bases would also be being attacked because of how many gangs there are fighting for control.
More active gangs = no more alliances

If you want me to continue acknowledging your posts actually read my response in full. Don't just skim over it. Sick of repeating myself

[N!chola$]

So you said this would happen at the end of the month...what day tho because I've been on several games that do it on the first of the next month or they do it midnight on the 31st.


So which exact date?

[XR]

GM4 was semi on release. I only added the auto feature because I reduced the clip size and thought if people used auto the gun wouldn't be as spammy as auto fire is slower than tap firing. But because the gm4 already had a high firerate and low freeze, whilst auto was slower, it still wasnt slow enough for there to be any gaps in between the shots so it basically made it worse to spar against

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1. I do pk, I do spar, I do base. I wasn't always staff, I was a player from release for several years, whilst yes the majority of the guns I make I do get for free, that doesn't mean I have never spent any money on what I own. Guns like the bar, pbp, shipka, souizen etc I had paid for myself. The difference is I am willing for those guns that I have bought/ made to be nerfed because of the benefits it will have to the game that you are unable to see. You and most other players are biased because you bought/ have the guns that are being effected. As I said in this thread, obviously most of you will be against nerfs because you think you are being ripped off. Same reason in other p2w games when nerfs happen it is usually just applied, and listed in a changelog you have to find yourself, with no community discussion as the developers know most will oppose it to protect their own self interests.

2. Catering to newer players/ players who can't afford to spend $60-70 just to compete are what's best for the game. Graal has no marketing, any new players that join the game are from other servers or from word of mouth. There are more people leaving the game than joining and that's because new players get dominated because their guns do nothing against the bar/ gm4 etc that most of the active pkers in the game use. Just imagine if a big game reviewer reviewed graal. What do you think they would say? I could guarantee you it would be along the lines of "game is p2w, you have no chance to participate in the pking aspect of the game unless you fork out a large portion of money, don't play this game you're better off buying an actual game for the same price as a virtual gun."
And for that reason, that is why new players on graal don't pk or base or spar, that's why there are so many traders, astros rpers and start afkers- because you don't need to spend money to compete doing those things.
The more new players are catered for, the more likely they are to pk/ base/ spar, means more players participating in those activities.
The player count may look like it hasn't decreased, but the actual number of people pking, sparring, basing has. Spar arenas are empty with the exception of 2-4 in complex. And that mostly consists of the same people daily, and they are all older players going for reward items. Bases are empty because there are so few people attacking bases that it's easy to just make an alliance and afk in a base. Overworld pking is probably the least impacted but that's due to guns that are effective at that eg- aa12 aren't as expensive and are more accessible to players

3. As for basing being a problem because of alliances look at it this way. The alliances are able to happen because there are not many gangs basing, as in there are enough bases on the map for the main gangs to hold and have those alliances and not enough gangs without a base that can have enough people to take them. If there are more people making gangs, pking and basing as a result of more new players trying to compete because the p2w gap is lowered, that means there will be more gangs fighting for those bases, and the alliances won't be able to hold as strongly as there will be more new gangs fighting for control of the bases than there are "old" gangs in alliances to keep up with.
Look at how basing was when the game was released, there were so many different gangs, and so many people basing that there were no alliances.

Currently there are roughly 12-15 'main' gangs that are actively basing. This is referring to gangs in the top scores that are still actively trying to gain hours for rewards. There are 9 bases. That means if 9 of the lets say 13 gangs are in a base each, with an alliance with eachother that means that there are 4 gangs not in an alliance that are without a base. They can't get a base because if they attack one, the alliance gangs will come and back them up. (The alliances are only possible because at most only 2-3 bases are being attacked by a gang that poses an actual threat. This leaves the other 5-6 gangs in the alliances that aren't currently being attacked to send members to help them out because they don't have to worry about defending their own base because nobody is attacking it).
- now look at it this way, there are 9 gangs in the alliance holding a base each and there are 20-30 active gangs as a result of the changes, and more people participating in basing. Those 9 gangs cant make an alliance with those 20-30 other gangs because those 20-30 are without a base. If the 20-30 gangs are fighting for a base, the gangs in the 9 alliance won't be able to call for help because all the other bases would also be being attacked because of how many gangs there are fighting for control.
More active gangs = no more alliances

If you want me to continue acknowledging your posts actually read my response in full. Don't just skim over it. Sick of repeating myself

You do realize that 75% of this thread is disagreeing with you? Do you not realize that games like Call of Duty, Halo, CSGO, Battlefield all succeed because they have buyable content, you can't expect to be a god on a game without paying, and making it "more fair" it's saying something like "oh, even though you're a new player we made starter pistol just as good as bar so you have a better chance" you're tripping over your own words and not listening to the community.

You don't play, I've been on everyday for awhile and haven't seen you once, in the last 4 months I've seen you once in complex, once in a base and never pking.

And hey, maybe everyone uses the same guns cause those ones are good and the rest are worse, how about you make more guns and equal them out in the 110-140k price range so they'll be more appealing for players trying to get into sparring or basing. After all, you are the guns admin.