READ- Weapon Rebalancing

[Casey]

what he said

[Tasim]

Honestly the fact there is so much hate and complaining on this post wont help your situation at all. If you have suggestions for changes make them, all you need to do is share an idea that is actually reasonable and fair and I am sure Sam would meet you halfway. I can understand that you arent happy with some of the changes, thats normal like meph has said human nature is to resist change. But that does not mean you should act like children, if you want something changed put your feelings into something more productive.

I asked sam for a slightly larger clip on the shipka and he met me halfway from 14 to 15, I asked him for faster fire rate for a smaller clip with the p2ks and he met me there too. Those changes are the ones you see now and its resulted from normal human conversations with the decency to actually compromise. If you made proper suggestions perhaps you wouldnt be so upset as you are now.


And also thank you Bitzsam for following through on the suggestions, its made a good case for what can happen rather than what is happening currently.

[Light]

I honestly love this new update.

Thanks Sam.

[XR]

Went basing last night -- it's much more enjoyable now.
I've always seen basing as the primary goal of this game, and anything that enhances the basing experience is a step in the right direction.

I'm not surprised at all of the flak that Sam is receiving out of this -- he made a change that every Gun Admin since 2011 has wanted to make.

The fact that this conversation has come up numerous times in the past six years is evidence that the change was inevitable.
It wasn't ever a matter of "if", but "when".

The time would eventually have to come when providing an easy way to victory would water down the gameplay to such an extent that it no longer offers enough substance to be attractive.
That time has finally arrived where, by its own evidence, the lack of gang activity has warranted the changes that we have all forecasted for years.

It's natural and expected that those who lost their free ticket to victory are upset.
Truth is, it should have been fixed much sooner.

Gameplay would have been improved much sooner, and I wager our playercount would have been higher if people didn't feel it necessary to purchase a BAR to compete.
Imagine all of the players that have come along, and, when seeing how devastingly overpowered the BAR was, were discouraged from playing.

Also, I see multiple posts about how peoples' "money has been wasted".
There are two sides to that coin -- there are many more people who have purchased other guns, that up until now, stood no chance against the BAR spam.
Depending what side of the coin you're on, there are players out there whose previous investments just took a leap, comparatively to what they were last week.

I encourage you to step away from the forums and check your own inventory -- you may have a gem in there that has taken on new value now that the gap between tiers has shortened.

Looking at the new stats of the BAR, it appears to be very close to an M4, except for 10 damage when perfect, automatic, slightly less spread, and a hefty reload.
Given that the M4 has been long touted as a good multi-purpose gun by the community, one would think that the community would embrace a 10-damage version.

You paid a premium for an advantage, and you still have the advantage of 10 damage, without compromising on fire rate.
The issue is that BAR owners don't want ONE advantage -- they have grown accustomed to having MULTIPLE advantages, without compromising anywhere.

No gun should have this many advantages over others-- the BAR was a mistake.
Every Gun Admin since its release has said "this thing should have never been released."

Had we done the right thing and nerfed it back in 2012, leaving it with only the advantage of 10 damage, we would not be having this conversation right now.
We went against our better judgement and opted to not upset people, and as a result, gameplay has suffered at the hands of people who want the game spoon-fed to them.

This is the reason gun stats are not left to a community vote -- because people are too often motivated by self-interest, instead of thinking of what is best for the game itself.
The Gun Admin is in charge of enhancing gameplay and making sure that it makes sense.

The following statement is evidence that something was wrong:

Somebody who "sucks at the game" should never be on PAR with somebody who has poured time and energy into getting good at the game.

A wallet is not a replacement for time well spent.
If you cannot yet compete without a handicap, you haven't yet earned the right to victory.

The nature of the game is competition.
Develop your fighting abilities, compete against other people, and continually work towards improvement.

Achieving victory as a result of working towards mastery is much more rewarding than swiping your credit card.

You don't see chess players paying cash to reach the status of Grandmaster.
This should not be the case in Era either -- or any competitive arena for that matter.

Respect the game by working towards mastery.

It's in our nature to be resistant to change.
Go out and play it -- realize that you have it within you to win without an outrageous handicap.

Listen Meph, I think you're a pretty mature and honest guy, but man I gotta critique you on this.

First off why is the BAR being considered overpowered, many many many players beat it on a regular basis using other weapons of higher tiers. You guys think this is some god weapon when in reality it was a high freeze spam gun, just like thompson, metalstorm and ghost ripper, and nobody considered those weapons godly as they practically have better stats apart from the 10 damage.

Every game has a hierarchy system, and usually a payment system, you can sacrifice real money to get these really good items or atleast advance to them, or you can work and move up the ladder. These players with these weapons did that, and through time they achieved goals which logically means they deserve an advantage.

You're right, a wallet doesn't mean you should be successful, but this is 2017 and money makes the world go round, it's so easy to beat a BAR, you just need some skill. After all, this has been the goal, to implement more skill based play, so maybe players who haven't advanced in the weapon ladder (haven't earned the weapons nor put as much time into the game) should learn to adapt until they advance in the weapon ladder.

Now that these changes have occurred, players are struck with the fact that a $55k weapon is better than a $200k weapon, which is wrong, who in the right mind disregards price like that. Thats like pitting a Jalopy against a Lamborghini and having the Jalopy win, THAT MAKES 0 LOGICAL SENSE. Every single game has a price system, the higher the price the better the weapon, and a community is what fuels management, as feedback is taken into consideration once there is a large sum of it. I did not see a single complaint about weapons.

Bitzsam is NOT listening to the community, and the only people agreeing with him either; A.) Don't have these weapons, B.) Haven't advanced in the hierarchy system and they are upset due to the fact they haven't learned to beat the stronger weapons (as its very possible) and C.) Are simply staff and they can't argue back.

This is how the world works, and Sam is yet to notice that the players are the community, and disregarding is only destroying your ego. So how about I help you out? Here's some Suggestions

1.) Allow old gun stats outside of spar complex and in bases

2.) Compensate for the change

3.) Re-wire the weapons so there actually IS a hierarchy system, as right now the weapon ladder is destroyed

[GenoIndeed]

@Meph

That 10 dmg doesn't mean anything if those shots aren't landing. Did you actually use a bar or just fought against one? There are far more effective guns in basing, pk, and spar so why would I use it? Its rof is still slow even when tapped so its really easy to dodge. Its been nerfed too hard and I wouldn't recommend it in its current state. And why should nerfing the bar warrant all these other changes?

[Prancer]

Listen Meph, I think you're a pretty mature and honest guy, but man I gotta critique you on this.

First off why is the BAR being considered overpowered, many many many players beat it on a regular basis using other weapons of higher tiers. You guys think this is some god weapon when in reality it was a high freeze spam gun, just like thompson, metalstorm and ghost ripper, and nobody considered those weapons godly as they practically have better stats apart from the 10 damage.

Every game has a hierarchy system, and usually a payment system, you can sacrifice real money to get these really good items or atleast advance to them, or you can work and move up the ladder. These players with these weapons did that, and through time they achieved goals which logically means they deserve an advantage.

You're right, a wallet doesn't mean you should be successful, but this is 2017 and money makes the world go round, it's so easy to beat a BAR, you just need some skill. After all, this has been the goal, to implement more skill based play, so maybe players who haven't advanced in the weapon ladder (haven't earned the weapons nor put as much time into the game) should learn to adapt until they advance in the weapon ladder.

Now that these changes have occurred, players are struck with the fact that a $55k weapon is better than a $200k weapon, which is wrong, who in the right mind disregards price like that. Thats like pitting a Jalopy against a Lamborghini and having the Jalopy win, THAT MAKES 0 LOGICAL SENSE. Every single game has a price system, the higher the price the better the weapon, and a community is what fuels management, as feedback is taken into consideration once there is a large sum of it. I did not see a single complaint about weapons.

Bitzsam is NOT listening to the community, and the only people agreeing with him either; A.) Don't have these weapons, B.) Haven't advanced in the hierarchy system and they are upset due to the fact they haven't learned to beat the stronger weapons (as its very possible) and C.) Are simply staff and they can't argue back.

This is how the world works, and Sam is yet to notice that the players are the community, and disregarding is only destroying your ego. So how about I help you out? Here's some Suggestions

1.) Allow old gun stats outside of spar complex and in bases

2.) Compensate for the change

3.) Re-wire the weapons so there actually IS a hierarchy system, as right now the weapon ladder is destroyed

you forgot 4) Trying to ride admins thinking they will be rewarded with an application

[jaxwashere]

Just give it some time guys. This change will grow on you.

Some of these guns are unusable now. Have you gone to spar or based recently? People are using guns that cost less because of the state of the guns nerfed.


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[Prancer]

Some of these guns are unusable now. Have you gone to spar or based recently? People are using guns that cost less because of the state of the guns nerfed.


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Bar is useless in spar,base and even pk since people can EASILY dodge your bullets

[jaxwashere]

Bar is useless in spar,base and even pk since people can EASILY dodge your bullets

Exactly the game is severely imbalanced now. This had the opposite effect than what was intended. I mean plenty of nerfs have happened in the past but not like this. Majority of admins use these weapons for free on there admin account. Get free grallets on there main. So they don't understand the effort. 15k spar wins is a lot 150k this takes players years in most cases. I don't think an admin that doesn't even have close to these stats should be touching gun stats. Bar cost $100 or a hell of a lot of digging etc i was using it less after last nerf for psg but now it's completely unusable.


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[Jacob Graal]

I completely supported the fact in which the bar needed a nerf for sure, along with a few of the other guns- but my problem is the bar seems obsolete now. I base now to see the shipka as well as the pbp more as opposed to the primarily bar, due to the bar nerf. The rof being nerfed makes the gun almost unusable when facing the shipka with a high rate of fire and two bullets, and overall it's 10 damage benefactor still seems to hold no ground when facing a thompson in spar, default rifle, p2ks, etc. (although this could also be due to my lack of skill, but even so facing those same players with a glock allowed me to win.) You have stated this change would keep the gun tiers the same, but that's not the case. There are certainly better guns for basing now (pbp, shipka) and for sparring, (thompson, shipka, etc.). My problem is, the gun hierarchy has changed- though you have stated it would not. It's a subjective opinion, you could still say the bar is better than these guns due to it's 10 damage, but I could also say the gm4 is better because of it's higher fire rate and reload time. I'm all for the idea for nerfing guns to make the game more balanced, but the bar seems not as good compared to certain cheaper guns now. The 10 damage factor doesn't have as much as an effect now since the fire rate is so abnormally low, it'd be hard to kill a gun with a higher fire rate and lower freeze like for example, again, the shipka. The bar seems more similar to the scar now. The scar is cheaper, and also does 10 damage. The scar has a clip of 15 and with the changes, the freeze of the bar is similar as well as rof, but the reload is slightly faster on the scar. I understand there is a week to see if changes are necessessary and to clarify, I'm not saying to revert these changes. I'm proposing the bar be slightly buffed to keep it ahead of the pbp and shipka, as they seem to be the primary basing guns at this moment. I'm all for variety, but all these changes have done is shifted the meta to pbp and shipka being the overused paytoplay guns in base, and as opposed to keeping the bar in it's place as the greater gun to the cheaper guns, it's been nerfed to a point where cheaper guns reign supreme.