READ- Weapon Rebalancing

[N!chola$]

I usually agree with some of the gun changes, but like I've said over and over changing the top tier weapons after they have been released for so long is only going to cause more drama. You're not considering the fact that most people who spent money on these high priced weapons usually got them for working hard for their money or even as gifts. If half the community (or lower) still doesn't agree with your changes you need to consider starting over and see what you can do to make them agree with you. Otherwise adding more guns to the game in the future is going to prove ineffective since people will most likely not buy them because their stats could be changed anytime without even any prior notice.

SO true, I won't be buying anymore guns in era. Plus I won't be on ever again (only exception is if Countryside is really good).

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Nothing will happen here. He will just keep justifying every post of people, its not like he listen at all. Im done here

Yep has been like that for a while, its his way or the highway.

[NCX]

Let's go to the Zone joke..

BiTzSam Nearf guns to make iEra Guns Balanced..to make Era More Compfortable.. Simple Sciences..

[MJ4]

Let's go to the Zone joke..

BiTzSam Nearf guns to make iEra Guns Balanced..to make Era More Compfortable.. Simple Sciences..

And math


Yea that's true, he made it to be more skilful rather than making bars rule spar rooms, many bars spamming in doorway.

[Tasim]

Money does not equate to skill. Just because you spent your money, hard earned or not does not make YOU any more entitled than anyone else. You are all so concerned about yourselves that these complaints are really maskings of your own disatisifcation. If this did not effect you, you wouldnt be so up in arms. Nowhere in this game did it say that buying an expensive weapon automatically means you can crap on anyone else or you deserve a leg up above someone else.

Maybe instead of crying you should actually think of ways to improve your situation and make REASONABLE, LOGICAL, and VALID suggestions, rather than complain about something he wont go back on. You can only control so much in your life, yet rather than try to improve the situation you act like spoiled children who got no sweets after dinner. Please remember that you arent the only one that is being effected by this and therefore this isnt all about YOU.

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SO true, I won't be buying anymore guns in era. Plus I won't be on ever again (only exception is if Countryside is really good).

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Yep has been like that for a while, its his way or the highway.

If you bothered to try and make actual suggestions you wouldn't be feeling this way. This is the problem, its only YOUR way or nothing. Maybe you can take this time to reflect upon yourself and learn to communicate properly, as well as learn the skills of negotiation.

If you dont want to do these things then you wont be missed, a crybaby is nothing more than a child.

[Grandpa Illusions]

Didn't I make a thread asking if gas was going to be nerfed then a few weeks later it was nerfed? Everyone was saying no..

[hohi416]

Let's go to the Zone joke..

BiTzSam Nearf guns to make iEra Guns Balanced..to make Era More Compfortable.. Simple Sciences..

it gets annoying when a 200k gralat gun gets outclasses by cheaper guns

[imaginary]

Didn't I make a thread asking if gas was going to be nerfed then a few weeks later it was nerfed? Everyone was saying no..

It was randomly nerfed bc bisam wanted to :-(

[Meph]

This speaks volumes. Obviously something needs to change.

Yeah, currently that is what I'd value it at -- majorly because of the hefty reload.

Here's how I come to the conclusion on gun value:

The way I've always seen it, is to first establish what an 'acceptable range' is.
That is, to answer the question of "what is the middle-ground?".
Everybody knows this to be the 'm4-tier'-- they understand it to be the range that skill can be used to achieve victory, where the gun is not advantaged, nor disadvantaged.

It looks a little something like this:

Acceptable Freeze range: 0.17 - 0.20
Acceptable RoF range: 0.28 - 0.32
Acceptable Spread range: 0 - 0.10
Acceptable Damage range: 9 (perfect)
Acceptable Reload range: 0.30 - 0.35

Damage: Anything below the acceptable range yields a disadvantage, and anything above the acceptable range yields an advantage.

Freeze, RoF, and Reload: Anything below the acceptable range yields an advantage, and above the acceptable range yields a disadvantage.

Spread: Spread is largely a preference up to 0.10. Beyond that, the bullet trajectory reaches extremes that neglects the general rules of engagement established by 4-directional shooting, constituting that one must first get within a field of vulnerability to be in a position to attack. For this reason, spread levels above 0.10 yield an advantage.

These are really the primary statistics that make or break a gun's performance. Clip size could play some role, but a gun can be pretty accurately valued with these variables.

A gun can be given an advantage and stay within the acceptable range, so long as the advantage is proportionately countered with a disadvantage.

The price to pay for a gun that falls within the acceptable range is between 50k and 100k.

Anything lower than 50k should come with 1 disadvantage(with no countering advantage), to a degree that is proportionate to its price below 50k.
Anything higher than 100k should come with 1 advantage(with no countering disadvantage), to a degree that is proportionate to its price above 100k.
A gun should not have more than 1 uncountered advantage.
The operative word there is 'uncountered'.

For example: Assuming a gun is priced at 150k, it meets the criteria to have one solid uncountered advantage.
We can give it a faster(lower) Rate of Fire (RoF) as its qualified advantage, and keep all other stats in within the acceptable range.

We cannot give it any additional advantages, unless one of the other stats are proportionately disadvantaged.
So we can give it a faster RoF as its qualified advantage, and then give it 9 damage(10 perfect), but would then have to counter the damage advantage with a proportionate disadvantage (much more freeze, a hefty reload, slower walk speed when equipped, etc.)

To apply these guidelines to the current BAR:

Freeze: 0.20 (acceptable range)
RoF: 0.30 (acceptable range)
Spread: 0.08 (acceptable range)
Damage: 10 (widely advantaged)
Reload: 0.50 (widely disadvantaged)

We have a widely advantaged damage being countered by a widely disadvantaged reload, essentially evening it out and putting it in the top brackets of the 'acceptable' range, thereby valueing it at around 100k-115k.

Now to look at another example of something in this range, let's check out the Sawed AK47:

Freeze: 0.17 (acceptable range)
RoF: 0.39 (moderately disadvantaged)
Spread: 0 (acceptable range)
Damage: 10 perfect (widely advantaged)
Reload: 0.30 (acceptable range)

It makes sense that the WIDE advantage of 10 damage is MODERATELY countered by the RoF, because it is 90k, and is on the higher end of the 'acceptable' spectrum

However, if we were to start looking at all guns in this light, you'll find that there are discrepancies in all tiers.

MP40, for example:
Freeze: 0.20 (acceptable range)
RoF: 0.28 (acceptable range)
Spread: 0.07 (acceptable range)
Damage: 8 (slightly disadvantaged)
Reload: 0.20 (moderately advantaged)

Applying the guidelines, this gun looks like it would be valued at around 30k-40k, but it's a steal at 10k.

MetalStorm:
Freeze: 0.16 (slightly advantaged)
RoF: 0.225 (widely advantaged)
Spread: 0.12 (moderately advantaged)
Damage: 9 (acceptable range)
Reload: 0.20 (moderately advantaged)

MetalStorm is very close to following the guidelines, though -- If either Reload or RoF were brought into more 'acceptable' ranges, or freeze was slightly disadvantaged, it would fit the mold perfectly for a 150k gun.

In short, I would say that it's about time that we take a step back, look at all guns, and make sure they're following common guidelines that make their price match up with their statistics.

The conversation has been brought up several times over the past five or so years, and we've had about 4 GunAdmins during this time (Myself, BBoy, Recurvez, Bitzsam).
Every time we get a new Gun Admin, we also get a new perception of what "acceptable" is.

I've here explained the logic behind my criteria, but everybody has a different perception.
I think it's about time that we step back and look at the guns as a whole, and make sure that we're still consistent.

This was the whole reason I created the title 'Gun Admin' back in 2008 PC Era -- to ensure that guns make sense.
This shake-up with the top-tier may just give us the opportunity to do that; and also establish to both players and future Gun Admins what kind of guidelines we are to observe when matching a gun's statistics with its price.

That way we wouldn't have to do it ever again, and any argument about gun stats can be looked at rationally.

[BiTzSam]

Wouldn't really consider the BAR to only be valued at 10k higher than the sawed AK when its only real disadvantage is in the 0.03 less freeze. Not only that but it would also put the BAR into the same category as the M107 priced at 107k and they are far from being equal competitors. 0.39 firerate is a fairly slow firerate, and 0.09 is considerably higher than the BAR especially when you consider how 'drastically' people see the BARs firerate reduction to be, which was of a decrease of 0.06, 0.03 less than the gap between the BAR and Sawed AK. Pair that with the fact that it has 0 spread makes the Sawed AK a very easy weapon to dodge. The only way a sawed Ak would have a chance is if they got in close which then leaves them open to being out damaged by the BARS higher firerate.

Those stats also aren't taking into account clip size and reload sleep. The BAR has 4 more bullets, and because of the low firerate of the sawed AK, they only have a 0.11 gap to run up to the bar user (who usually runs away from the opponent to reload aswell, resulting in an even greater time distance) and shoot them which in a practical scenario is not enough time unless the BAR user run out of ammo during their shooting.
In terms of reload whilst the sawed AK might initially be faster on the reload freeze, its sleep reload is higher which more or less evens the two guns out in terms of the time period until both guns can begin to shoot again after reloading.

I still stand by the BAR being worth 200k, it is just seen that the bar nerf has devalued the gun because they were used to how strong the BAR was. Remember the BARs INITIAL price set based on its statistics was actually 250k, with the price later being reduced to 200k not because of a stat reduction but to make the price less intimitading to buyers.
The actual fact is the BAR nerf it just recieved is reducing its 250k equivilant stats to 200k as it is currently sold. As the stats were never reduced when the price was, it effectively means that the BAR you had bought and used was worth more than the price you got it for

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As for the Metalstorm, the statistics for that particular gun aren't representative of its performance. For whatever reason 0.16 freeze to 0.15 makes a significant difference the same way the firerate statistic from 0.29-0.3 also makes a significantly higher difference than the 0.01 it should only be. The freeze on the metalstorm when used feels closer to the 0.18-0.19 range giving it extremely low mobility when spam fired.

I'm still yet to see many people using it post nerf, or people that I have seen use it actually do well with it leaving it out of the rebalance for the first week was not an oversight it was intentional

[Meph]

@Bitzsam
Yeah - I've always thought a gun's Reload Sleep should equal its Reload Freeze.
Once the user experiences the freeze of the reload, they should be able to shoot -- I've never really been on board with making them wait longer to fire the gun.

Different strokes, I suppose =D

Whichever way you cut it, I will say that basing is significantly more enjoyable post-nerf.