People abusing the report system.

[Wilder94]

how did U see that happening lol






doesnt work like that

They asked me to do it, i said no but seen them get jailed for essentially nothing

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It sure does define you.

OOOFFFFF

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No you do not get the point. We are talking about ABUSE, and as I've said, using the system as a means to get back at one another constitutes abuse.

You've completely ignored this fact that has to be accepted prior to discourse. I have also further mentioned about relevant examples and fully explained why it would constitute abuse regardless of validity of report.

I did not in any way dismiss the report filed as invalid. It is still valid, but I am addressing the issue of aforementioned abuse.

You have misinterpreted what I've said. Read my previous post prior to giving your inputs.

Man I'd give up, they can never see the negative side of anything PRs have/do it's always "players bashing them"

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While I do see what you’re trying to say, and agree partly with it as it has been repeated multiple times, it is very difficult to actively punish several people whom are reporting one person as an act of revenge or hostility, but we must also realize in part, the reason why these incidents occur.

In several cases as I have been a part of this conflicting situations you refer to, both parties commit an offense that admins look into extensively, as it is their job and duty to investigate all reports and take the action that is needed to be done.

What you are stating is, that you wish for there to be an active punishment for those who report the offensor repeatedly, a form of reconciliation, in part.

Instead of bantering about who’s point is correct, we must think about the outcomes of such an institution. If we were to implement a sort of system such as so, unequivocally, several people would be either wrongly punished, leading to more chaos and havoc. Leading to more debatable posts such a these, where an outcome is unlikely.

Perhaps try suggesting specifically what you would like to see implemented to aide the development of such a process. Do you want it to be a system type of thing, or something that is heavily reviewed by staff? Or perhaps a script that once someone is warned already, anyone else that tries to warn the player is notified that the issue is being looked into, as to avoid this “unfairness” that is believed to be occurring. You must also consider, there is punishment for those who abuse the report system as well. Or is that too broad for you?

Remember: if we want to see change, take action, and be specific and reasonable about your demands. This goes for everyone.

Thank you.

This is how all PRs should reply, afterall they're representing the community and game..

Any other game abusing the report system results in a ban, i don't see why this isn't the case in graal too but whatever, seems a simple solution to me, just to clarify abuse an example: would be spamming reports with others in hopes to get the person affected negativly whether or not they did something wrong, 2 wrongs don't make a right do they?

However i feel someone who isn't biased should be making the rules related to this.. who idk just my opinion

[imaginary]

Any other game abusing the report system results in a ban, i don't see why this isn't the case in graal too but whatever, seems a simple solution to me, just to clarify abuse an example: would be spamming reports with others in hopes to get the person affected negativly whether or not they did something wrong, 2 wrongs don't make a right do they?

However i feel someone who isn't biased should be making the rules related to this.. who idk just my opinion

That rule already exists. I have been jailed and warned before for abusing it. (Was too obvious cuz I sarcastically reported my friend for being “too hot)

The reason why not a lot of people get jailed for it is because it’s not that easy to figure out if they’re abusing it. Like a group of players could report someone who is trash talking using public chat but when the PR comes to check it out, he’d have stopped using swear words already so it isn’t fair to jail the others cuz the PR didn’t catch the reported person in action

[Wilder94]

That rule already exists. I have been jailed and warned before for abusing it. (Was too obvious cuz I sarcastically reported my friend for being “too hot)

The reason why not a lot of people get jailed for it is because it’s not that easy to figure out if they’re abusing it. Like a group of players could report someone who is trash talking using public chat but when the PR comes to check it out, he’d have stopped using swear words already so it isn’t fair to jail the others cuz the PR didn’t catch the reported person in action

They can go there invisible though, so there really should be no excuse

[LYK08]

we are talking about people from the same gang using the system as a weapon against an enemy gang.

Considering that gang wars are not too frequent and that such cases of abuse are rare, but they do occur, I think that what I've suggested in my earlier post regarding investigation into conspiracy in a gang to abuse the system is practical. If a member of a gang reports another member of an enemy gang, it will not constitute abuse as it the justification of it tilts more towards helping to create a safer environment. The thing that should not be given legal protection is the case where more than 10 members of the same gang reports another member of an enemy gang, with the gang chat/PM history indicating explicitly plans to conspire against someone of the enemy gang. It would constitute abuse and it would be justified to warn these members on the grounds of abuse of report system.

If this policy is implemented, fewer gangs would seek to misuse the report system as a means to get back at their enemies. It will also increase the efficiency admins review the reports because they spend lesser time trying to sort out who's right and who's abusing the system etc. The fact that the system has been used as a weapon when players exploit the responsibility of admins to satisfy their intentions of getting back at someone has been neglected thus far. It is evident in the number of gang wars that exacerbated as a result of using administrative intervention to attack an enemy.

The war between Grim reapers and obsidian was one such example, with players on both sides conspiring to report one another. The admins would have unintentionally added fuel to fire when the system is used to meet such ends, which can run countenance to their aim of keeping a safe playing environment. The admins intervened as part of the abuse of the system , only to result in more animosity between warring factions and more toxicity.

I'm not saying that admins should not punish those who are in the wrong, but rather when they punish one player for breaking the rules, they should also ensure that those reporting the player are not abusing the system by using it as a weapon. Just because the report is deemed valid does not mean those reporting are not guilty of abusing the system.

It's not going to lead to more protests and false warns if there are clear explicit intent of abusing the system.

[imaginary]

They can go there invisible though, so there really should be no excuse

Lol.. they do go invisible

[PoeticFolly]

whenever i was staff the most annoying thing that i had to deal with was people mass-reporting others for not doing anything at all, or just to be an *** and try and get the other person banned. it happens, a lot. most notably when gang wars or basing are going on. it can get over whelming when you're getting a few dozen reports on the same person for doing nothing wrong.

me personally, i would check the pm history, go invisible in the base, investigate what's going on - the whole shebang. if they're not doing anything after a few minutes, i clear the reports. but if they keep trying to flood reports i'll often shoot them a pm and tell them to stop abusing the report system, or if it's incredibly excessive i would give them a warning.

abusing the report function isn't going to get someone banned in most circumstances. it's just going to piss off the staff that has to deal with it

[Joeyaudi1]

I'm not saying that admins should not punish those who are in the wrong, but rather when they punish one player for breaking the rules, they should also ensure that those reporting the player are not abusing the system by using it as a weapon. Just because the report is deemed valid does not mean those reporting are not guilty of abusing the system.

It's not going to lead to more protests and false warns if there are clear explicit intent of abusing the system.

I consider the report system as a double edged sword, it can be used to defend yourself but if used poorly, can hurt you as well, in my experience I've basically warned both parties (reporter and reported) for numerous reasons, sometimes both used curse words, or they're both glitching... And also sometimes only the reporter gets warned and not the reported, I'm saying this to clarify it's not based on who reported who, yes maybe there's an abuse from gang to gang, the other gang will have no idea they got reported, but in cases where there isn't a wrong doing from the reported and spams happen because of it, I'm sure and it has happened before, they'll get warned for spamming.
That policy you suggested is actually not bad of an idea, though what would be the punishments ? And how would we pick who to warn? Maybe they were in on it without talking ? Maybe they planned via a third party messaging app? Will it be warns or an "auto lose?"
Let's not forget we're all here to attempt to improve the gameplay, I hope we can bring in a solution without insulting each other (not you LYK08 btw miss you)

[Venus*]

I consider the report system as a double edged sword, it can be used to defend yourself but if used poorly, can hurt you as well, in my experience I've basically warned both parties (reporter and reported) for numerous reasons, sometimes both used curse words, or they're both glitching... And also sometimes only the reporter gets warned and not the reported, I'm saying this to clarify it's not based on who reported who, yes maybe there's an abuse from gang to gang, the other gang will have no idea they got reported, but in cases where there isn't a wrong doing from the reported and spams happen because of it, I'm sure and it has happened before, they'll get warned for spamming.
That policy you suggested is actually not bad of an idea, though what would be the punishments ? And how would we pick who to warn? Maybe they were in on it without talking ? Maybe they planned via a third party messaging app? Will it be warns or an "auto lose?"
Let's not forget we're all here to attempt to improve the gameplay, I hope we can bring in a solution without insulting each other (not you LYK08 btw miss you)

Thank you, this is what I’ve asked earlier, I didn’t know if it was clear enough.

To redirect the post, how about everyone contribute a specific idea that they feel would solve the issue personally? It is understood now the intent behind this thread, and what we all constitute as abuse. Now we must suggest ways to absolve it.

Personally, I think a report timer would be lovely. If one person reports a person for a certain offense, then that accuser and the committee will be investigated.

While the above idea may be idealistic, this is personally what I would like to see, all opinions are welcome :]



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Originally Posted by Mikel

This is how all PRs should reply, afterall they're representing the community and game..

Any other game abusing the report system results in a ban, i don't see why this isn't the case in graal too but whatever, seems a simple solution to me, just to clarify abuse an example: would be spamming reports with others in hopes to get the person affected negativly whether or not they did something wrong, 2 wrongs don't make a right do they?

However i feel someone who isn't biased should be making the rules related to this.. who idk just my opinion

Thank you for your regards, I’m glad I was able to clarify to your standards.

I do know what you mean about mmorpgs having a report abuse-ban procedure. Maybe perhaps such a system is too complicated for graal, which is why it has to be taken into account by Player Relations administration. But I agree with the idea.

Also, it’s quite hard to remove bias altogether (haha). Where a group of people agree, someone always disagrees eventually unfortunately :[, but if we all narrow down one clear, concise, solution, as a majority, then that helps for future implementation in a developmental standpoint :]

[LYK08]

I consider the report system as a double edged sword, it can be used to defend yourself but if used poorly, can hurt you as well, in my experience I've basically warned both parties (reporter and reported) for numerous reasons, sometimes both used curse words, or they're both glitching... And also sometimes only the reporter gets warned and not the reported, I'm saying this to clarify it's not based on who reported who, yes maybe there's an abuse from gang to gang, the other gang will have no idea they got reported, but in cases where there isn't a wrong doing from the reported and spams happen because of it, I'm sure and it has happened before, they'll get warned for spamming.
That policy you suggested is actually not bad of an idea, though what would be the punishments ? And how would we pick who to warn? Maybe they were in on it without talking ? Maybe they planned via a third party messaging app? Will it be warns or an "auto lose?"
Let's not forget we're all here to attempt to improve the gameplay, I hope we can bring in a solution without insulting each other (not you LYK08 btw miss you)

Oh hey wassup)

Pertaining your queries, I think it should be recognised that admins base their punishments in concrete evidence and if there gangs conspire using means outside of the game then there would not be evidence against them, sadly.

As for the punishment, I think it would be the same as what abusing the system entails. If the plan to conspire is conveyed through gang chat/pm and the persons who received the message did what they were told (to abuse the system), then all of them will have to be punished. This discourages players from conspiring in game to abuse the system at least. If it's done out of the game through social media then nothing can be done about it, but at least it reduces the likelihood of it being done in game. If pm/gamg chat history does not show any conversation attempting to conspire then it will not be justified to punish them on the grounds of abuse.

Put simply, to tell if they are abusing in game all the following criteria must be met
1. More than say, 3 members of the same gang reporting the same person (let's not restrict it to just another gang because I will not rule out the possibility of applying the policy to cyberbullying where people team up against another person)
2. PM/gangchat history revealed that there were plans to conspire

Sent from my A37f using Tapatalk

[Zany]

They asked me to do it, i said no but seen them get jailed for essentially nothing

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OOOFFFFF

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Man I'd give up, they can never see the negative side of anything PRs have/do it's always "players bashing them"

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This is how all PRs should reply, afterall they're representing the community and game..

Any other game abusing the report system results in a ban, i don't see why this isn't the case in graal too but whatever, seems a simple solution to me, just to clarify abuse an example: would be spamming reports with others in hopes to get the person affected negativly whether or not they did something wrong, 2 wrongs don't make a right do they?

However i feel someone who isn't biased should be making the rules related to this.. who idk just my opinion

I never said the team and it’s people don’t have faults. I’m simply sharing my side of the situation. On one hand you want PRs to talk individual of their job but now you’re saying that I have to respond a certain way as a staff. I’m allowed my opinion. I’m a player too. I’ve never felt entitled, I’ve never felt I deserve anything more, but I at least deserve an opinion.

Besides that though,

I agree with Yukami overall. There’s a lot to this. We have to be realistic and specific. Stop putting blame and doing tit for tat. Report spamming is only punishable to far extremes. What PoeticFolly explained is accurate in many ways; we do exactly what he said (go stealth and thoroughly investigate both involved players, and if they’re found guilty then that’s that. Verbal warnings typically stop report abuse.

There are already rules in place for report abuse but it’s not normally so severe that it constitutes a warn/jail.