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Thread: Gunshots Tradable Permits

  1. #51
    Big Cheese Captain LYK08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackandWhite View Post
    Clearly you don't understand my clarification and I don't understand you clarification, so I find this reply most unhelpful. I assuming you answer is yes (or at least you presuppose it) since you speak of taxes as, "everyone lose," and permits/ investment as, "achieving a purpose." I find this term "purpose" to be to vague so I hone it down to access/ allowance/ ability; hence according to you (my assumption) purchasing shovels is not a form of tax since it fulfils the purpose of digging - And I am assuming this is the same reasoning to which you say no to my hypothetical situation (since the 50 gralats allows people to shoot more).

    However, I don't find the absence of access/ allowance/ ability as a necessary criterion of tax. For instance, paying a property levy on real estate allows you to purchase property (otherwise it would be illegal); I doubt you would deny this as not a 'property tax'.

    I define tax as a form of levy imposed onto x thing- Hence buying shovels for 50 gralats (to dig) is not a form of tax since the purchase is intrinsic/ pure; there is no subject which is being levied upon. But in the case of my hypothetical situation it is a tax since 50 gralats is being levied onto the activity (thing) of shooting.

    As I reiterate (in response to your proposal), purchasing a permit/ purchasing goods with melees-sellables is not a form of tax per se, but the fact a permit (a cost) is be levied onto the thing/ activity of shooting is. The fact that this permit is a form of tax is more evident since prior shooting to an amount of specific limit, one does not need to pay anything (as in trade for more permits), but once this limit is surpassed a cost is imposed onto them.
    Well its actually not an additional cost but rather, a purchase of an item (the permit) which is tangible just like any other goods. Ammo is a tangible item you need in order to use a gun, so similarly, a permit is needed for you to go beyond the stipulated amount of shots. Take note that products are being purchased, its a two way transaction where I pay an item, i get another item. Unlike a tax, which is one way where I pay for something, and I do not get anything back.

    This is the idea Ive been trying to get at since the start. I mean, I'm fine if people view my ideas differently (everyone can express themselves), but what prompted me to intervene or clarify is when players misinterpret my idea or when they misconstrue them (such as insisting that its a tax).



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  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by LYK08 View Post
    Well its actually not an additional cost but rather, a purchase of an item (the permit) which is tangible just like any other goods. Ammo is a tangible item you need in order to use a gun, so similarly, a permit is needed for you to go beyond the stipulated amount of shots. Take note that products are being purchased, its a two way transaction where I pay an item, i get another item. Unlike a tax, which is one way where I pay for something, and I do not get anything back.

    This is the idea Ive been trying to get at since the start. I mean, I'm fine if people view my ideas differently (everyone can express themselves), but what prompted me to intervene or clarify is when players misinterpret my idea or when they misconstrue them (such as insisting that its a tax).



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    I don't perceive a permit as a 'tangible good' - at least in the same light as ammo or shovels. This permit is purely a disguise or middleman for a tax. What exactly is the difference between paying the graal era system 50 shells to be levied upon shooting as opposed to paying someone 50 shells for a permit to be levied upon shooting. At the end of the day 50 shells is being taken from you into order for you to continue shooting.

    I suppose I see the difference between ammo and a permit in their necessity. Buying ammo for a gun is the gun's 'essential nature'; to shoot a gun it is a necessary criterion to obtain, thus buy, and use bullets- hence nothing is being imposed/ added upon. I see this in the same light as buying a gun for pking or buying an umbrella from someone for specifically and only their requested price.

    Purchasing a permit is being imposed upon the activity of shooting. In the current state of graal, one does not need pay an additional fee to shoot more- and again in your proposal, prior to shooting the permissible amount of shots one does not need to pay for anything. But once that permissible amount is surpassed, a cost is being imposed onto the graal player base, effectively taxing anyone who wishes to shoot, for example, 50000 shots. You cannot deny the fact that a cost is being imposed onto the activity of shooting onto the community in accordance to your proposal (to which they would not have need to pay in the current state of graal), and this added cost is what players are interpreting as tax.

    I don't understand this urge of yours to chase different applicable way for the graal era player base to cough up what they own. What is your all new, innovative negative punishment - your upcoming thread is going to pertain?
    Last edited by BlackandWhite; 06-26-2019 at 11:18 PM.

  3. #53
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    Tapatalk has now set the image for this thread as the anti-commie propaganda and I find that glorious.


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  4. #54
    Big Cheese Captain LYK08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackandWhite View Post
    I don't perceive a permit as a 'tangible good' - at least in the same light as ammo or shovels. This permit is purely a disguise or middleman for a tax. What exactly is the difference between paying the graal era system 50 shells to be levied upon shooting as opposed to paying someone 50 shells for a permit to be levied upon shooting. At the end of the day 50 shells is being taken from you into order for you to continue shooting.

    I suppose I see the difference between ammo and a permit in their necessity. Buying ammo for a gun is the gun's 'essential nature'; to shoot a gun it is a necessary criterion to obtain, thus buy, and use bullets- hence nothing is being imposed/ added upon. I see this in the same light as buying a gun for pking or buying an umbrella from someone for specifically and only their requested price.

    Purchasing a permit is being imposed upon the activity of shooting. In the current state of graal, one does not need pay an additional fee to shoot more- and again in your proposal, prior to shooting the permissible amount of shots one does not need to pay for anything. But once that permissible amount is surpassed, a cost is being imposed onto the graal player base, effectively taxing anyone who wishes to shoot, for example, 50000 shots. You cannot deny the fact that a cost is being imposed onto the activity of shooting onto the community in accordance to your proposal (to which they would not have need to pay in the current state of graal), and this added cost is what players are interpreting as tax.

    I don't understand this urge of yours to chase different applicable way for the graal era player base to cough up what they own. What is your all new, innovative negative punishment - your upcoming thread is going to pertain?
    The thing is, its going to something tangible that can be traded. And no its not going to be a disguise for a tax because if I buy, say a shovel or pizza peal, i will lose some money so therefore the pizza peal is considered a disguise for a tax. I don't find this line of reasoning sensible.

    The stipulated amount of 5000 is to give players the perception that their shots are limited, so they can use their shots more effectively instead of spamming bullets which can cause lag especially outside bases during forts. Its not hard to keep within it unless someone is an avid Pker. Then again, with a good gun, 5 shots can take a person down so 5000 shots can give a 1000 kill streak if a player uses it all on Pk. The shots do not count in bases or spars so theres no issue with that.

    The tradable permit is to give players the freedom to customise the number of shots according to their needs and wants. In a market, if you need/want something you will have to trade for it with something, that's why its tradable.

    It is much more allocatively efficient using a permit.

    Also, for every idea that I give, I have my reasons. Do you realise that you kinda ignored all of the reasons and focused on just trying to tell me its a tax when its not?

    To summarise, I seek to protect the car jobs community, the new players,the forters and make the gane more skill based through this idea. Have you ever thought of these benefits?

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    Last edited by LYK08; 06-27-2019 at 12:00 AM.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZN View Post
    Tapatalk has now set the image for this thread as the anti-commie propaganda and I find that glorious.


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    Quote Originally Posted by LYK08 View Post
    I ask that you refrain from posting if you have nothing constructive.


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    K.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AZN View Post
    Tapatalk has now set the image for this thread as the anti-commie propaganda and I find that glorious.


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  8. #58
    Old new player JimmY1809's Avatar
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    This is what I see in Lyk's post.

  9. #59
    Big Cheese Captain LYK08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmY1809 View Post


    This is what I see in Lyk's post.
    I don't see how this is relevant to topic, except for maybe letting you run the risk of getting warned for derailing.

    "Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply." - Stephen R Covey

    That's the issue with one or two active forum users who have to have their post on almost every thread. It makes communication less effective on the forums, which explains why I have ceased replying to some of them - if you haven't noticed.
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  10. #60
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    Gunshots Tradable Permits

    Quote Originally Posted by LYK08 View Post
    I don't see how this is relevant to topic, except for maybe letting you run the risk of getting warned for derailing.

    "Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply." - Stephen R Covey

    That's the issue with one or two active forum users who have to have their post on almost every thread. It makes communication less effective on the forums, which explains why I have ceased replying to some of them - if you haven't noticed.
    I think that's due in part to the fact that not many people want to have a discussion about how increasing the already long skill curve that exists in iEra.

    I don't think many players would want to continue working on how to PK with a Desert Eagle against players who are stacked on Gunshot Permits and spam their BARs and Miniguns to their hearts content.

    Not to mention you excluded Event Reward guns, and with how easy it is to get EC nowadays, the streets will only be flooded with Chemical spammers that want to circumvent the limit.

    I'll admit, I came into this with quite the closed mindset, but that still doesn't mean I think this is a good idea for the sake of the community. All this will do is cause more players to quit and make the game a chore rather than actually fun, which should be the end goal of all feedback given to the "improve" the gameplay.

    And also, if you're wondering why people are not reading the first post and "assuming it's a tax" is because you've developed quite the reputation for talking about it even when other's have expressed they're not interested. Nobody is going to read something they already know the result of doing so will be dissatisfaction, especially with an opening like..


    Quote Originally Posted by LYK08 View Post
    I would like to introduce tradable permits for gunshots


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