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Thread: The solution for unfair trade practices in Trade Tables

  1. #1
    Big Cheese Captain LYK08's Avatar
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    Exclamation The solution for unfair trade practices in Trade Tables

    Forget Trade Reversals.

    Forget the warning messages when you enter trade tables.

    Ever wondered why trochus is being made the main 'currency' in the trade tables? I know many trades have been questioning it and after much thought I concluded - ITS A RESULT OF SELLABLES MANIPULATION.

    I shall define the term of sellable manipulation - it is basically a bias over the use of one sellable over another, causing the sellable less used to be 'depreciated' in value. Huh?

    You're confused. So here's an example (example 1):
    Some player trade 2 aerolatas for 1 trochus. We know aeros and trochus have same value of 3 gralats each, but in such a context, the value of aeros have dropped to 1.5 gralats. That's the result of sellable manipulation.

    Now here's how it all started
    We know in trade tables there are dealers and also hoarders. The dealers buy items and then sell them off at a higher price , while the hoarders own many of the same items and then sell them off at a profit.

    We also know trade gangs exist. Hoarder gangs? Maybe. But hoarders definitely do.

    The thing is there are a few factors that may have caused the trade community to favour trochus and devaluate aeros.

    We shall regard the hoarders and traders as one group and let's call it HTDs.

    The majority of HTDs decided to use and accept trochus only, which also means that:
    1. if you want their goods, you'd better give them the trochus
    2. if you're trying to sell someone a good, its better to accept trochus - or else you'll probably not be trading any of the aerolatas away because HTDs won't accept.

    So trochus are therefore made transferrable and validated in the community.

    The act of collectively deciding to accept trochus is a form of unethical trade practice as it is sellable manipulation. Earlier I mentioned how it led to the devaluation of Aeros.

    If its just HTDs, then why is it so widespread?

    Here's the thing about this bad trade practice - it starts a vicious cycle.
    The buyers (lets call him A) give trochus to get for example, a katana.
    The buyer, A, then sells to B and decides to accept trochus because he/she wants the trochus to be reused for other trades and also to preserve the value of the katana.
    B repeats this process to C.
    And the cycle goes on and on until it reaches the hands of someone who doesn't want to sell the item of. In the process, though, everyone starts using trochus.

    If you're wondering why trochus is used to preserve the value of the katana, then look back at example 1 - if A sells to be at 1000 aeros (3000 gralats) instead of 1000 trochus, A will have to exchange the aeros for only 500 trochus (1500 gralats). That's a loss of 1500 gralats!

    That's why, forget the trade reversals. Forget the messages at trade tables. We haven't resolved this bad trade practice rotting at our tables!

    What are the consequences?

    1. We are reducing trade volumes
    See, if we could use our Aeros at trade without having to exchange It for aeros at a loss, there would definitely be more players trading. Most players won't want to make a loss exchanging their aeros for trochus so they won't bother with using aeros at all.

    If I have 5k trochus and 5k aeros, the 5k aeros is wasted and the total number of shells (same value each) could have been used to buy a 10k shells item - if only people accept aeros. But because they don't, I can't get that item, and I will have to work 2x harder to get it and by then I would have 10k aeros 10k trochus. Which, brings me to my next point.

    2. the trade system rips people of their shells if they use aeros
    Since I have 10k aeros, I could use them for trade by exchanging at a 2:1 trochus ratio for trochus. That means I'm essentially making a loss of 15k gralats!! (5k aeros) I'm pretty sure the existence of players offering to exchange trochus and aeros clearly shows that there are people taking such losses and I don't think that makes it worth their while. They probably wouldn't exchange had they not been desparate enough for some item.


    So, here's my proposed solution:
    1. Have a shell exchange kiosk at every trade tables for players to exchange trochus and aeros at 1:1 ratio.
    They shouldn't fall victim to exchangers t 2:1 ratio! People will start to accept both shells knowing that they could exchange for trochus anyway.


    2. Impose a maximum number of trochus that could be traded in one transaction, however, this restriction will be lifted once people add aeros to the tables and the aero:trochus hits a certain ratio.

    For example, if the limit is 10k trochus. And I am buying a 20k trochus/aero item. If the ratio is 1 aero:5 trochus, I will have to minimally have 4000 aeros and 16000 trochus to be able to lift the restriction and buy the item.

    With such a restriction, sellers and HTDs will no longer demand trochus only because they know there's a restriction of say, 10k trochus.
    A TAX DOES THE BEST ATTACKS ON UNFAIRNESS.

  2. #2
    Hmm I don't see the context of unfairness. Tro is chosen as currency bcuz it has highest drop rate. Let the traders choose what they want lol, why must u make this kind of law? Don't fix things that aren't broken

  3. #3
    Big Cheese Captain LYK08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trix View Post
    Hmm I don't see the context of unfairness. Tro is chosen as currency bcuz it has highest drop rate. Let the traders choose what they want lol, why must u make this kind of law? Don't fix things that aren't broken
    oh ya? then wb those exchanging for aeros?
    are they gna make a loss or be denied trade?
    A TAX DOES THE BEST ATTACKS ON UNFAIRNESS.

  4. #4
    The widespread acceptance of trochus is a result of players having easier access to it back when trade tables were first established to reduce scamming via the old drop trade norm. Like Trix said, this is due to the high drop rate of trochus versus other sellables and the fact that you only have to do one thing to get some capital in order to be involved in the trading business - dig. Trashes and mushrooms take too much space in the table and gets kind of messy, same goes for other sellables. Moreover, this is the result of a player-run market that took into account all the players' preferences and eventually gave rise to trochus as the trading currency in the game. In other words, trochus is accepted because it's what the players have favored throughout the years.

    If an intervention would have been done to make our belittled aerolatas forcefully accepted in trade, eventually trade prices will go up in the long run, making things harder instead of solving the "work 2x harder" issue you mentioned. Think of it this way, because aerolatas can now be used in trade, then yes players can earn shells (trochus and aerolatas, specifically) faster. But this also grants more players the purchasing power to get rares and even ultras. With this increase in demand, the owners of the items can price and sell their items higher because more people will want the same item, therefore inflating trade prices which eventually brings us back to the same level of difficulty (or even more!) of earning for an item when trochus was the only shell accepted because prices are now higher. Additionally, this create an uncertainty in the future that may cause declines in trade due to the fear of selling your supers for aeros, which was not usually done before. It will take time for players to adapt and still, there's the fear and uncertainty.

    You cannot simply reason out the loss of gralats when exchanging aeros for tros to force the former in the trading world. If we're merely talking about trade in their gralat values, then shouldn't supers be sold according to their auction value? Why are we buying stun guns for around 2K trochus, is there some sort of EC-to-shell ratio? These are some of the things that have been addressed by a long process of negotiation and trading, and are still changing.

    Forcing aerolatas in the trading economy of the game is like forcing the local grocery store in the Philippines to accept your US$ - they would never. You have to freaking exchange it, right? According to the forex rate? Thus, you have your sellable exchanging system.

  5. #5
    Big Cheese Captain LYK08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reck View Post
    The widespread acceptance of trochus is a result of players having easier access to it back when trade tables were first established to reduce scamming via the old drop trade norm. Like Trix said, this is due to the high drop rate of trochus versus other sellables and the fact that you only have to do one thing to get some capital in order to be involved in the trading business - dig. Trashes and mushrooms take too much space in the table and gets kind of messy, same goes for other sellables. Moreover, this is the result of a player-run market that took into account all the players' preferences and eventually gave rise to trochus as the trading currency in the game. In other words, trochus is accepted because it's what the players have favored throughout the years.

    If an intervention would have been done to make our belittled aerolatas forcefully accepted in trade, eventually trade prices will go up in the long run, making things harder instead of solving the "work 2x harder" issue you mentioned. Think of it this way, because aerolatas can now be used in trade, then yes players can earn shells (trochus and aerolatas, specifically) faster. But this also grants more players the purchasing power to get rares and even ultras. With this increase in demand, the owners of the items can price and sell their items higher because more people will want the same item, therefore inflating trade prices which eventually brings us back to the same level of difficulty (or even more!) of earning for an item when trochus was the only shell accepted because prices are now higher. Additionally, this create an uncertainty in the future that may cause declines in trade due to the fear of selling your supers for aeros, which was not usually done before. It will take time for players to adapt and still, there's the fear and uncertainty.

    You cannot simply reason out the loss of gralats when exchanging aeros for tros to force the former in the trading world. If we're merely talking about trade in their gralat values, then shouldn't supers be sold according to their auction value? Why are we buying stun guns for around 2K trochus, is there some sort of EC-to-shell ratio? These are some of the things that have been addressed by a long process of negotiation and trading, and are still changing.

    Forcing aerolatas in the trading economy of the game is like forcing the local grocery store in the Philippines to accept your US$ - they would never. You have to freaking exchange it, right? According to the forex rate? Thus, you have your sellable exchanging system.
    I have to say, yes the demand will increase if we let aeros we used together with trochus. But whether or not prices will rise because of that is not direct effect. By letting more players being able to trade with the acceptance of aeros, the items being traded will vary widely and doesn't necessarily mean, oh now with aeros, the demand for a specific item will increase so much that it is inflation blah blah.

    The trade volume currently is so low and there are underused trade tables, I don't think accepting aeros will do harm. In fact it might hype up the trade community.

    I'm not trying to introduce a new 'currency' into the trade. I'm trying to help enable a second method of payment.
    think of it as, allowing cash and debit card payment - both still use the same currency because both aeros and trochus are of the same value - but the 'debit card' hasn't been accepted previously so now we are enabling it.

    I don't think it messes up the system also, because there are player trading using crabs shells, mushcrooms and trash etc. Adding in aeros won't make much of a difference.

    And I'm proposing this to protect those trying to exchange their aeros for tros
    A TAX DOES THE BEST ATTACKS ON UNFAIRNESS.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by LYK08 View Post
    I have to say, yes the demand will increase if we let aeros we used together with trochus. But whether or not prices will rise because of that is not direct effect. By letting more players being able to trade with the acceptance of aeros, the items being traded will vary widely and doesn't necessarily mean, oh now with aeros, the demand for a specific item will increase so much that it is inflation blah blah.

    The trade volume currently is so low and there are underused trade tables, I don't think accepting aeros will do harm. In fact it might hype up the trade community.

    I'm not trying to introduce a new 'currency' into the trade. I'm trying to help enable a second method of payment.
    think of it as, allowing cash and debit card payment - both still use the same currency because both aeros and trochus are of the same value - but the 'debit card' hasn't been accepted previously so now we are enabling it.

    I don't think it messes up the system also, because there are player trading using crabs shells, mushcrooms and trash etc. Adding in aeros won't make much of a difference.

    And I'm proposing this to protect those trying to exchange their aeros for tros
    No no no. He’s right. Prices will definitely double. It’s simple economics:

    Supply & demand will remain unchanged...BUT you’re suggesting to basically double the bank accounts of all players. This massive trocus inflation will result in an inevitable readjusting back to where we started, but just with different numbers.

    Simply put: Price is as high as what most people are WILLING to pay...Give everybody 2x shells and guess what you’re gonna get.

    Don’t tamper with the balance of the force bud.

  7. #7
    why are you this torn up over people not using aeros at trade tables? pretty much everything you said is either common sense, or a terrible idea to reinvent the wheel for absolutely no reason.

    Now, here's my solution for your non-existent problem; just remove aeros (and sand dollars for that matter) from the game, and convert them all to trochus (or scallops) automatically. "problem" solved.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    I hate aerolatas so much! REMOVE THEM, WHY ARE THEY EVEN A THING!

  9. #9
    Hello heheh

    - - - Updated - - -

    dis guy is genius!! he got couple of the HTD to expose themselves LMAO

  10. #10
    Grind To Shine bluedragon123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sQuiRtLe View Post
    Hello heheh

    - - - Updated - - -

    dis guy is genius!! he got couple of the HTD to expose themselves LMAO
    Welcome haha, little late to reply to this thread though.
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