PLEASE start promoting skill

[Ventus]

The bar is only worth it's price in a base, it sucks in all other areas.

[WubWubWub]

you're wrong knuckles. lets compare stats

Uzi*: $650($1300)
Dual: Yes
Damage: 5
Spread: 0.13
Freeze: 0.13
Freeze (Dual): 0.20
Fire Rate: 0.4
Fire Rate (Dual): 0.4
Reload Freeze: 0.4-0.6
Auto: Yes
Clip: 16
Clip (Dual): 32

BAR*: $200000
Dual: No
Damage: 9
Spread: 0.1
Freeze: 0.2
Fire Rate: 0.24
Reload Freeze: 0.20-0.30
Auto: Yes
Clip: 25
first factor, uzis do not stack damage.

if your attacked by 4 guys with 4 uzis it takes at least 9 shots from 1 uzi to kill you, while the bar on the other hand, it only takes 5 shots to kill you.
another factor here is clip reload and size, the bar reloads twice as fast as the uzi and has a larger clip. Dual uzis shoot 2 shots at once so its clip is 16.
a huge factor is the ROF and T2K, the bar nearly doubles the uzis ROF, so lets do some simple multiplication, to find t2k its just ROF * bullets to kill
according to this formula
Uzi T2K = 3.6 seconds
BAR T2K = 1.2 seconds
now divide 3.6 and 4
and Uzis T2K x4 = .9 seconds.
Thats only .3 seconds faster than 1 bar for 1 persons death, so its still a challenge to take out a bar even with 4 uzis. and you will take huge damage. Odds are, is the bar will take out at least 1-3 people.

[WubWubWub]

Lets say the bar did get nerfed... how many hours before you start biching for a shipka nerf? After shipka, nerf the souizen and souizen re-skins. I see no purpose to this, the bar is balanced and imo isn't all that good. I barley use my bar because of how bad it is. How will nerfing the bar do anything? You're still gonna get ganged banged in a base by 4 other people. They'll either be using bars(after nerf) and will still kill you incredibly quickly or use another high damage gun. The bar outside of bases gets destroyed because of how bad the timer is. It's only good in bases because of the no hit timer, regardless of what gun a gang uses. A group of 4 double uzis in a base can destroy 1 bar with little effort. Its the strength in numbers not power. This will not promote skill in anyway shape or form, the bar will be spammed no matter what. The bar can get decimated by a shipka,souizen,pbp,m4,sten,acr,ghost m4,Wh-42,Ak-74u, and Rafficas in a bottom spar. Whats a bottom spar? 2 players spraying each other down not moving just spraying each other in the bottom of the arena. The bar is faster then most of those guns and deals more damage then all of them excluding the pbp. It's only good in bases. You can get attacked by 4 guys as I said before using a 5 damage gun and the bar won't be able to win. If they all hit 2 shots you'll take 40 damage just 2 more and you're done.

shipkia already had its nerf, along with the souizen, same with the M4, glock, candy bazooka (however these 3 items got their ROF buff back, now candy bazooka is a AC again, way to go GAs for making backwards progress), lexel (no clue why), PBP, M3, Shotgun, steampunk, AP7s, deagles, starter guns, handguns, uzis, bar (reverted back), Tec9, P90, AUG, MP40, M16, (though those 2 guns got buffed) AC (buffed AGAIN with freaking explosive knock+ high ROF), and the famas
The only 3 guns im going to ***** about would be the Pbp, AC, and Candy bazooka.
Also i don't know why you guys are *****ing so much about a barley noticable nerf, the M16 is just about a BAR freeze just a tad less. Try it if you don't beleve me, theres barley a difference.

[Mystic]

you're wrong knuckles. lets compare stats

Uzi*: $650($1300)
Dual: Yes
Damage: 5
Spread: 0.13
Freeze: 0.13
Freeze (Dual): 0.20
Fire Rate: 0.4
Fire Rate (Dual): 0.4
Reload Freeze: 0.4-0.6
Auto: Yes
Clip: 16
Clip (Dual): 32

BAR*: $200000
Dual: No
Damage: 9
Spread: 0.1
Freeze: 0.2
Fire Rate: 0.24
Reload Freeze: 0.20-0.30
Auto: Yes
Clip: 25
first factor, uzis do not stack damage.

if your attacked by 4 guys with 4 uzis it takes at least 9 shots from 1 uzi to kill you, while the bar on the other hand, it only takes 5 shots to kill you.
another factor here is clip reload and size, the bar reloads twice as fast as the uzi and has a larger clip. Dual uzis shoot 2 shots at once so its clip is 16.
a huge factor is the ROF and T2K, the bar nearly doubles the uzis ROF, so lets do some simple multiplication, to find t2k its just ROF * bullets to kill
according to this formula
Uzi T2K = 3.6 seconds
BAR T2K = 1.2 seconds
now divide 3.6 and 4
and Uzis T2K x4 = .9 seconds.
Thats only .3 seconds faster than 1 bar for 1 persons death, so its still a challenge to take out a bar even with 4 uzis. and you will take huge damage. Odds are, is the bar will take out at least 1-3 people.

Well of course it's going to take longer to kill someone using a uzi. The BAR is balanced for it's price, if it was the same amount of gralats as uzi, everyone would have it. The BAR can be beaten, it's really not as difficult as you think it is. The price range is just fine for the BAR ESPECIALLY for its speed, as others have said "why fix something that isn't broken" there are plenty of guns that can defeat BAR.

[Ghettoicedtea]

lol you guys should have seen what meph wanted to nerf the bar to, it was crazy.

But wtf are you guys *****ing about? The M16 and bar both have a .2 freeze (I don't know why though theres now no point of tachi scorpion.
BAR freeze should be increased to .23, and to make up for less mobility raise the spread to .146 so youre still getting the same spread range as you would like current BAR moving. That is perfectly reasonable. Youre still getting the fastest T2K on a gun, it just makes it less mobile. BAR will still dominate in bases, you will still win a gun dual in a narrow hallway everytime as long as you have more health, the extra spread would actually make it great at knocking off bottom spammers, Marginal suppression increase in open spaces, and would make it even better at suppressing multiple targets. That is still worth 200,000 in my eyes.
But holy freaking crap there has to be about 1300 BAR users daily, that's way to much bars. This games going to end up like Battlefield3 before the M16 patch where the only gun people used was the M16A3 and there was no variety. Seriously do something to encourage other weapons than the bar and push players out of their confort zone/

[Lord Greg]

lol you guys should have seen what meph wanted to nerf the bar to, it was crazy.

But wtf are you guys *****ing about? The M16 and bar both have a .2 freeze (I don't know why though theres now no point of tachi scorpion.
BAR freeze should be increased to .23, and to make up for less mobility raise the spread to .146 so youre still getting the same spread range as you would like current BAR moving. That is perfectly reasonable. Youre still getting the fastest T2K on a gun, it just makes it less mobile. BAR will still dominate in bases, you will still win a gun dual in a narrow hallway everytime as long as you have more health, the extra spread would actually make it great at knocking off bottom spammers, Marginal suppression increase in open spaces, and would make it even better at suppressing multiple targets. That is still worth 200,000 in my eyes.
But holy freaking crap there has to be about 1300 BAR users daily, that's way to much bars. This games going to end up like Battlefield3 before the M16 patch where the only gun people used was the M16A3 and there was no variety. Seriously do something to encourage other weapons than the bar and push players out of their confort zone/

The reason so many people use it is because it is good. The price is high because it is good. Why encourage other guns? Shotguns have uses for close quarter fighting so they get used, shipka has 2 bullet for good suppression and spam. Other guns are good in their ways too.

[Ghettoicedtea]

The reason so many people use it is because it is good. The price is high because it is good. Why encourage other guns? Shotguns have uses for close quarter fighting so they get used, shipka has 2 bullet for good suppression and spam. Other guns are good in their ways too.

I agree that other guns are good in there own way. But the bar is good at everything. Its a huge issue these guns will soon have absolutley no purpose because the bar is the top dog in everything. This needs to change, bar needs to be more of a defensive sit and spam gun then what it is currently of this super awesome OP all around gun that is dominating in every catagory by a moderate margin. Theres other guns that cost an *** load like the ghost M4 and P2K that dont remotley come close to beating the bar. Bar needs less mobility that way expensive guns like the p2k and the ghost can be par with the bar. Also other cheaper guns stand a chance in closed areas and in the open.
Ghost and souizen type weapons should be top of assault, bar should top defensive, and the P2Ks should be on top of close quarters.Those are the three catagories that the weapons are best used at. However, none of these guns can be on top of the "other catagories" these include
Wide open areas
Turning corners
Narrow halls
Run n gun
Suppressing fire
Charging
Anti bottom spammers