I'm sorry but wasn't this the entire point of weapons rebalancing? It's to give new players a slightly better edge against fighting an experienced player with a high-end gun. Obviously if the experienced player is better he/she will win, same goes for an experienced player with a cheap gun fighting a casual player with a BAR for example.Originally Posted by Xur
No other graal server overprices the hell out of their guns like era. Literally have to put yourself into labor to even get a decent gun.
Nah I meant say the good guns are really not good anymore, to the point that I don't even use them anymore
So because one thing costs more than another thing because it had better stats, it's automatically pay2win? Even when that statistically better item will never guarantee that you'll beat your opponent because they'll beat you anyway due to being a better player? They paid but they didn't win, solely due to not having the skill. A true pay2win game is a game like Respawnables where they had overpowered 1 shot event/holiday items that were only available by spending real money, no grinding will get you them. The term pay2win does not apply to items that are available all the time with the basic currency and the item does not guarantee you'll win, the bar or any gun are available with gralats and never guarantees you'll beat your opponent. Buying guns with packs or grinding does not make anyone a good player or a bad player, its what you do with the gun that determines that. Of course grinding can take some time but its not an unreasonable amount of time. Now with that said, every person on era knew from the first hour they got on this game that the guns were sold in shops at varying prices, with the better stuff costing more due to being more effective in what they do and thats the way the shop system will be forever, so what are yall even crying about after 1000's of hours knowing this concept? As you can see, 1000's of player understood and worked with this concept because the game and guns were fun, even more fun when you got good at the game. This whole nerf idea just seems to favor those who didn't like or understand this concept and whined about it even tho it was there before they knew what this game was and people were already fine with. Also, most people I'm debating with here only seem to be focused on the bar and the stores system or the "pay2win" concept as yall like to call it, which the bar is always the star of that, but no one seems to ever mention everything else, even when I bring it up, probably because y'all aren't focused on that and have never been. Everything leads back to the bar and nothing else, its bar this bar that bar bar bar. These guns were never an issue or even a worry to yall, it's all been about the bar. If we were to make a stat-to price comparison for all guns we would see that all these guns had been reasonably set, for example the ump45 to the gm4, the ump45 is a good gun but the gm4 does what it does but better and reasonably so, and hasn't this foundation been constantly built upon based on this, we just added the new shop in aimpoint island and the guns stats were set based on what's already been for sale because they weren't an issue or they would've been fixed before the shop was added so don't pretend they were ever an issue. Now the bar did go past it limit and all it needed was a slight rof nerf to fix it, that one gun is the only reason yall are complaining and blowing it out of proportion as well because if the bar didn't exist then this whole situation wouldn't have either. Sam, you wouldn't have given these other guns any thought but you had to compensate for how much you over-nerfed the bar. I can understand the p2ks and shipka reload but everything else was done for no real reason. This whole ordeal was made because of really flimsy reasons from one person, and no one on the opposing side really had a say in it, and its looking like we still don't. So any other reasons yall wanna throw out for why this all makes sense, because I'm just finding holes in whats been said so far.
Technically, iera isn't "Pay To Win" It's "Pay for Convenience".
You can buy packs to get more base currency with which you buy everything. Usually in "Pay to Win" games there are systems or whole areas of the game completely locked or impossible for a player who doesn't pay to access.
For instance- the game Archeage contains a whole segment of the game that is basically locked to paying users. You can technically get it with in game money but it charges by the month and if you don't have this VIP member purchase every month you are completely locked out of most end-game content relating to that games home ownership system and farming ect. Actually- pretty much anything by Perfect World Entertainment.
There's also games like DCUO which lock story and level content to users who pay while claiming that they are "Free to Play"
Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes has heroes which can ONLY be obtained through premium cash-only currency. That's your gold standard.
There's a massive different between paying for convenience and paying for a legitimate advantage. iEra has it's problems yes, but we don't lock any content off from anyone who is willing to work towards buying the gun ect. The level systems for jobs also sort of help this goal (ie; mining levels cause you to mine quicker each level you gain).
iEra is 100% skill based when it comes down to how competitve play works and MPX ect. Take the rebalancing with it's silver linings too, now you don't HAVE to buy a BAR to be competitive so it will take you less time to get a decent gun, surely that's a good thing
The patch is perfect so far. I can spam using my own skill without being worried to face people who use spam spread weapons, all thanks to bitzsam!
@Vendhin
I agree with the pay2win examples. But about having to buy the bar to compete, that issue got fixed with the ump45 being released, less than half the price and can compete with pretty much any gun in the game in each field of combat. Anyone that didn't want to save for a bar, its always my most recommended gun to buy instead because it could hold up really well. Adding more guns like it as well would've done more to fix thing than nerfing these guns would've done.
@Archer Savage
Spam, in the supporting side's definition, means you didn't use skill so that comment technically didn't make sense. So was spread your only issue before all this?
Last edited by GenoIndeed; 05-17-2017 at 09:04 AM.
Bars not even a descent gun anymore that's the thing it's 200k but there's better options that cost less this is the problem. And I agree it is pay for convenience to some degree. Could you please explain that to Bitzsam because he believes if you spam a gun you somehow it gives you an advantage. The nerfs have killed these guns they are not usable. Have any of you actually been to the spar complex or based recently to see our argument is based on facts? I have plenty of options for guns personally but that's not the case for everyone this was a selfish decision to make these drastic changes. Even taking the Chem gun out of base was ridiculous I don't have it but 200ec is a hell of a lot to save they deserve to use it but that's another story.
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'Spam', defined in its most basic terminology on this game, is holding down the fire button.
This should not solely be an effective tactic in fighting, as it should come with a vulnerability; and usually that is impeded movement or lower damage.
BAR prior to the nerf had 0.20 freeze; which is right in the ballpark of other competitive guns.
This is not an adequate movement deficiency to compensate for the 0.24 fire rate, which is superior to other competitive guns.
It also had 10 damage, which again, is superior to other competitive guns.
There is no reason for a gun to have more than one uncountered advantage -- that's the point that your opposition is trying to make.
Was it beatable? Yes-- I take them out on the regular with AUG, M4, Minigun, Glock, SMGPK, Steampunk, PBP-AR, and even Uzi or Handgun.
They're honestly some of the most laughable opponents I've come across, because they put so much faith in their RoF that they are predictable.
The issue isn't that it was 'unbeatable', the issue is that it was offering too many advantages without deficiencies to balance it.
Tune in for live streaming action from gang bases, events, and other iEra activities, with commentary!
Instead of giving guns deficiencies couldn't the people who couldn't counter them develop skill. You even said the guns (before the nerf) were laughable in the hands of people without skill now they are laughable in general. Or they could donate time or money to the game like the people whose weapons that were nerfed did. But instead you cater to less skilled less caring players?
Meph please use these guns and see the problem for your self. Also take into consideration the price. Bar is 4X as much as m-4. But m-4 is hands down better after this nerf.
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