So I've been saving up for bar even before it's nerf. I'm considering buying Metalstorm - it has every stat better than bar except it does 1 less dmg. I just want to ask if it's going to get nerfed.
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So I've been saving up for bar even before it's nerf. I'm considering buying Metalstorm - it has every stat better than bar except it does 1 less dmg. I just want to ask if it's going to get nerfed.
Marry meQuote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Adelphos
I would wait it seems at this point nothing is definite.Quote:
Originally Posted by xCarlos
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Spar died already gg, walked into complex and saw 2 people in the 9 rooms available, and all the bases I walked into had very few players. Player count has decreased over the past few days. No pkers in any bases. Congrats bitzsam
I notice that too 1k online few pkers baser, and i also visit astro there numner is decliningQuote:
Originally Posted by Xur
It's always around 1000 during weekdays, the number rises in the weekendQuote:
Originally Posted by Celestial
The weekdays is usually busy, most of the people who play the game are younger kids who most likely have school, or for older players, have work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial
Weekends and very late in the day is usually when everyone is online.
There is usually 2k people online in the morning...has been like that for 3-4 years...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey Zanereth
There was 1600 on earlier and usually there's 1900-2200 online at this time (12:30 PM Eastern)Quote:
Originally Posted by N!chola$
Thanks BitZSam!
Basing is so much more fun now you should try it out. This'll bring millions of new players to era!:-)
But on the serious note this ruined basing. It's now whoever has more noobs and guns that tend to have more spam will keep the base. I paid 95 ec for the ion carbine to be worth it's price and as the result we get a trash weapon. It's easy for you to mess up every gun because you're a gun staff and can get whatever you want. You didn't take money out of Yogy's wallet like I did to buy guns.
Not really here to bash you for a mistake. But I feel as the community should've agreed on gun nerfs inorder for you to implement it in game. I can guarantee you that if you visit any base and ask basers how they enjoy the Nerf. Nobody would enjoy it.
It's easy for people who afk on graal at start to agree with your decision because they most likely didn't spend any money for a gun they thought was always gonna be powerful. I think it's best for you to create a in game poll to decide of this nerf will stay or not because not many of the players who actually have Bar/Ion/Gas Gun/PSG/p2ks use the forums.
People didn't pay 200k for a gun that's 120k to be better. Take the terrible comments into consideration instead of arguing with everyone and avoiding what people say. If players knew guns would go terrible everyone would've stayed with an M4. Nobody who actually plays this game to get pk/spar rewards enjoys this nerf.
we need have enable refund guns system :/ I want my money
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It's not yours if you've spent it >:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kivara
Its so dumb how most of era hates @BiTzSam now just because he changed some guns stats.. Like he said previously, actually try them out before you start saying dumb comments about "Now I'm quitting", "this was a waste of money", If so then why do you still play? Its because you can't stop.. Era is addicting in a sense of its not the guns, its who plays, its who respects, and talks, So why would you try to ruin someone just like you?
Apparently people don't know what pay2win actually means so I'll explain it and why Era doesn't fall under that category. A pay2win game is where the best items are only available through a premium currency that is either too hard to get by doing in-game objectives or jobs, or is only available by actually spending money to get the currency or item. The item usually has stats far above other publicly available items and usually has very little ways of countering it. The Bar does not fall under this due to it being always available to every single player thats ever logged in since its buyable with the basic currency of gralats, just like the ak47 is. Its more grindy, but you'll probably use the exact same grinding process for the bar and the ak47 if it works best for you, the bar just takes longer. Grinding or buying packs to skip the grinding process won't make you a better fighter in either way, you have to actually learn how to dodge and shoot regardless of what gun you have or what method you used to buy the gun. Just because the best item costs alot in the shop doesn't make it pay2win, era isn't pay2win, its a grindy game and there's a difference between those two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Adelphos
Now with that being said, no one bought their way up to the top, they got good with their guns, I could buy all the guns in the game, all the auction guns too and that wouldn't mean crap if I wasn't a good player. And trying to tell people to adapt is just saying "deal with it", no, I'm not just gonna "deal with it", I think it all was a bad idea and not done correctly so I will continue to debate it. You're over here saying people that don't want to deal with it are just bad players, then what about the players with like 500k kills and 40k spar wins that don't like it? They clearly have skill and it'd be illogical to assume they don't with stats like that, they got stats like that because they learned how to play while these guns were un-nerfed, as well did myself, I don't need a bar to fight another bar user, I could use a gun half its price and beat them because I'm a good player. If they were able to get good and defeat opponents regardless of what gun they use and I was able to learn the same then whats anyone elses excuse for why they can't? It's clearly not the guns since they can be beaten with cheaper guns, if these guns are such a big issue to you and others then thats on you, did you ever stop to think "hmm, maybe I just suck."? Anyone thats skilled learned how to beat these guns, I learned how to beat these guns, so anyone thats having trouble has no excuse and should work on their skill rather than complain that the guns are op when they themselves haven't developed the skill set to actually win.
Now with the bar specifically since its most talked about, yeah it was a little too strong but not op, it was still beatable and all it needed was a small rof nerf, not this big of a nerf.
Pay 2 Win means that anyone can have better guns statistically if they spend real life currency over those who play without spending a single cent.Quote:
Originally Posted by GenoIndeed
Take Era for a example. Yes, anyone can get the BAR, but it is incredibly grindy to get, whereas anyone with 100 dollars can get it earlier and easier than those grinding to get it. Most people dont have the time, nor the patience to work towards a high tier guns, so they settle with what they have.
Paying for a statistical advantage IS Pay-2-Win, which is why most games that take that route don't end up being rated highly on the stores.
And what do you mean no one paid to get to the top? If you gave me a minigun and I stood in one area where lots of people pass by (such as near the gas station), I would have a lot more kills than I do already. Most of the guns rely on spamming instead of having actual skill. And since the BAR is no longer automatic, why do you think people are outraged?
You're not paying for a statistical advantage, you're paying to skip the grinding. As a grindy game, the highest priced gun isn't going to be easy to get but that never meant you need to spend money, you just need to put in the time grinding to get it. No gun in this game requires you to spend money, thats by choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey Zanereth
And anyone can grab any gun and spam in the streets, and of course you'll most likely get more kills with higher priced guns since the price ranges determine its tier list due to how large the range is. No one, regardless of how skilled they are, needs skill to street spam so talking about street spam is rather pointless. And then there's guns that are designed to spam (minigun, most things that shoot more than 1 bullet at a time), which before they were added in the shop, their stats and functions were made so why are we getting blamed for that? Try mindlessly spamming in a base or spar and it won't work out for you against anyone with more skill. Stop trying to baby these people who haven't gotten skilled yet.
Also, most guns don't rely on spam, most guns will require you to know what you're actually doing to get the most out of them, and thats with guns of every tier. If we both had bars, and I was a better fighter than you, you won't win no matter how much you spam, same with the shipka and even the minigun or pbp.
People are pissed because the bar is garbage, its not effective in pk whether in bases or in the streets, not in spar, not in basing either. If someone was trying to sell me the Bar, what kind of presentation could they even make? I wouldn't want a slow gun that does 10 dmg when I could use a faster gun that does 9 dmg, I'd use that extra speed to get that last hit in and would be able to since I could get more shots in and avoid the slow shots easily. There is no reason to recommend a bar to anyone. All this whole thing feels like is just one big effort to baby people who didn't take the time to get good and decided that the guns were just op and whined about it, if there's lots of people who got good with whatever gun they had and could beat all these guns people whined about because they're skilled then this whole "nerf all the good stuff" idea makes no sense. And it makes even less sense because the "problem" was actually being fixed with new guns like the ump45 which could handle any gun and at an affordable price.
You dont even pk lmao.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey Zanereth
You're not seriously trying to argue that Era isn't p2w? Era has and probably always will be p2w just to a lesser extent. You are paying to skip both the grinding and to achieve a statistical advantage which is why pay2win games are built on. The only exception is that era doesn't have a seperate category but that doesn't make it not p2w. The seperate currency is just there so that they can make smaller looking bundles such as instead of having an item for 100,000 and people going that looks expensive, they'd sell it for 100,000 in the currency that people can earn and then have an option to buy it with a secondary currency for 50 'diamonds' or whatever they want to call it so it is more appealing to pay than earn it. The second currency is just a marketing tactic
P2w isn't definied by a secondary currency, the only graal server that isn't p2w is classic
So in your mind it's p2w and your reasoning for doing these changes is to punish the people who pay because that's what happened? Thats my understanding. The world is pay to win Bitzsam that's how capitalism works era is a reflection of reality. You will eventually have to nerf every gun people are already using better guns that cost less because of your actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiTzSam
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Players have found a loophole already, some of these cheap guns are really good now because the expensive ones aren't that good anymoreQuote:
Originally Posted by jaxwashere
I'm sorry but wasn't this the entire point of weapons rebalancing? It's to give new players a slightly better edge against fighting an experienced player with a high-end gun. Obviously if the experienced player is better he/she will win, same goes for an experienced player with a cheap gun fighting a casual player with a BAR for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xur
No other graal server overprices the hell out of their guns like era. Literally have to put yourself into labor to even get a decent gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiTzSam
Nah I meant say the good guns are really not good anymore, to the point that I don't even use them anymoreQuote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Ace
So because one thing costs more than another thing because it had better stats, it's automatically pay2win? Even when that statistically better item will never guarantee that you'll beat your opponent because they'll beat you anyway due to being a better player? They paid but they didn't win, solely due to not having the skill. A true pay2win game is a game like Respawnables where they had overpowered 1 shot event/holiday items that were only available by spending real money, no grinding will get you them. The term pay2win does not apply to items that are available all the time with the basic currency and the item does not guarantee you'll win, the bar or any gun are available with gralats and never guarantees you'll beat your opponent. Buying guns with packs or grinding does not make anyone a good player or a bad player, its what you do with the gun that determines that. Of course grinding can take some time but its not an unreasonable amount of time. Now with that said, every person on era knew from the first hour they got on this game that the guns were sold in shops at varying prices, with the better stuff costing more due to being more effective in what they do and thats the way the shop system will be forever, so what are yall even crying about after 1000's of hours knowing this concept? As you can see, 1000's of player understood and worked with this concept because the game and guns were fun, even more fun when you got good at the game. This whole nerf idea just seems to favor those who didn't like or understand this concept and whined about it even tho it was there before they knew what this game was and people were already fine with. Also, most people I'm debating with here only seem to be focused on the bar and the stores system or the "pay2win" concept as yall like to call it, which the bar is always the star of that, but no one seems to ever mention everything else, even when I bring it up, probably because y'all aren't focused on that and have never been. Everything leads back to the bar and nothing else, its bar this bar that bar bar bar. These guns were never an issue or even a worry to yall, it's all been about the bar. If we were to make a stat-to price comparison for all guns we would see that all these guns had been reasonably set, for example the ump45 to the gm4, the ump45 is a good gun but the gm4 does what it does but better and reasonably so, and hasn't this foundation been constantly built upon based on this, we just added the new shop in aimpoint island and the guns stats were set based on what's already been for sale because they weren't an issue or they would've been fixed before the shop was added so don't pretend they were ever an issue. Now the bar did go past it limit and all it needed was a slight rof nerf to fix it, that one gun is the only reason yall are complaining and blowing it out of proportion as well because if the bar didn't exist then this whole situation wouldn't have either. Sam, you wouldn't have given these other guns any thought but you had to compensate for how much you over-nerfed the bar. I can understand the p2ks and shipka reload but everything else was done for no real reason. This whole ordeal was made because of really flimsy reasons from one person, and no one on the opposing side really had a say in it, and its looking like we still don't. So any other reasons yall wanna throw out for why this all makes sense, because I'm just finding holes in whats been said so far.
Technically, iera isn't "Pay To Win" It's "Pay for Convenience".
You can buy packs to get more base currency with which you buy everything. Usually in "Pay to Win" games there are systems or whole areas of the game completely locked or impossible for a player who doesn't pay to access.
For instance- the game Archeage contains a whole segment of the game that is basically locked to paying users. You can technically get it with in game money but it charges by the month and if you don't have this VIP member purchase every month you are completely locked out of most end-game content relating to that games home ownership system and farming ect. Actually- pretty much anything by Perfect World Entertainment.
There's also games like DCUO which lock story and level content to users who pay while claiming that they are "Free to Play"
Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes has heroes which can ONLY be obtained through premium cash-only currency. That's your gold standard.
There's a massive different between paying for convenience and paying for a legitimate advantage. iEra has it's problems yes, but we don't lock any content off from anyone who is willing to work towards buying the gun ect. The level systems for jobs also sort of help this goal (ie; mining levels cause you to mine quicker each level you gain).
iEra is 100% skill based when it comes down to how competitve play works and MPX ect. Take the rebalancing with it's silver linings too, now you don't HAVE to buy a BAR to be competitive so it will take you less time to get a decent gun, surely that's a good thing
The patch is perfect so far. I can spam using my own skill without being worried to face people who use spam spread weapons, all thanks to bitzsam!
@Vendhin
I agree with the pay2win examples. But about having to buy the bar to compete, that issue got fixed with the ump45 being released, less than half the price and can compete with pretty much any gun in the game in each field of combat. Anyone that didn't want to save for a bar, its always my most recommended gun to buy instead because it could hold up really well. Adding more guns like it as well would've done more to fix thing than nerfing these guns would've done.
@Archer Savage
Spam, in the supporting side's definition, means you didn't use skill so that comment technically didn't make sense. So was spread your only issue before all this?
Bars not even a descent gun anymore that's the thing it's 200k but there's better options that cost less this is the problem. And I agree it is pay for convenience to some degree. Could you please explain that to Bitzsam because he believes if you spam a gun you somehow it gives you an advantage. The nerfs have killed these guns they are not usable. Have any of you actually been to the spar complex or based recently to see our argument is based on facts? I have plenty of options for guns personally but that's not the case for everyone this was a selfish decision to make these drastic changes. Even taking the Chem gun out of base was ridiculous I don't have it but 200ec is a hell of a lot to save they deserve to use it but that's another story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendhin
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'Spam', defined in its most basic terminology on this game, is holding down the fire button.Quote:
Originally Posted by GenoIndeed
This should not solely be an effective tactic in fighting, as it should come with a vulnerability; and usually that is impeded movement or lower damage.
BAR prior to the nerf had 0.20 freeze; which is right in the ballpark of other competitive guns.
This is not an adequate movement deficiency to compensate for the 0.24 fire rate, which is superior to other competitive guns.
It also had 10 damage, which again, is superior to other competitive guns.
There is no reason for a gun to have more than one uncountered advantage -- that's the point that your opposition is trying to make.
Was it beatable? Yes-- I take them out on the regular with AUG, M4, Minigun, Glock, SMGPK, Steampunk, PBP-AR, and even Uzi or Handgun.
They're honestly some of the most laughable opponents I've come across, because they put so much faith in their RoF that they are predictable.
The issue isn't that it was 'unbeatable', the issue is that it was offering too many advantages without deficiencies to balance it.
Instead of giving guns deficiencies couldn't the people who couldn't counter them develop skill. You even said the guns (before the nerf) were laughable in the hands of people without skill now they are laughable in general. Or they could donate time or money to the game like the people whose weapons that were nerfed did. But instead you cater to less skilled less caring players?Quote:
Originally Posted by Meph
Meph please use these guns and see the problem for your self. Also take into consideration the price. Bar is 4X as much as m-4. But m-4 is hands down better after this nerf.
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Just because you lost to an m4 using the bar doesn't make the m4 better, just means the problem is you. Go compare the stats, statistically the only benefit the m4 has is a faster reload and 0.02 more spread which is subjective anyway. Basically the same freeze, same firerate but bar has 10 damage. Whilst 1 more damage doesn't seem like a lot, it most definitely is.
Look at the ghost ripper, the smg mode prior to the nerf was widely considered as an extremely effective and sought after gun. Look at the old stats compared to the 40k tec9 and you will see they are almost the same with the main difference being 1 less damage from the tec9. And yet people don't consider the tec9 equal, better or even use it
Um Kim Jong Bitz why were the 65k guns like m8a1, G36 tactical & sawed ak 47 nerfed?
Can u nerf ak its to op
I never lost to an m-4 who is saying that? I have m-4 I have a wide variety of weapons. But the bar cost 4X as much as the m-4 and it should perform as so and it doesn't end of story it's only slightly better. Reload and spread make a big difference it's not subjective it's a statistical advantage. So $150k more that's $75 if you decided to use money or idk the shell amount for 1 more damage you basically proved my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiTzSam
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Thats because you are too noob and you do not know how to use the weapons and are now attempting to valuate a weapon's quality with money. It's very subjective here because to you its a disadvantage but to others it's an advantage. So if you fail to adapt and take on the viewpoint of others, then blame yourself.
If you have to resort to name calling then anything you say is invalid. Bitzsam and Meph are making valid points I won't go back and forward with you. I'm personally not having any problems I can adapt. That doesn't mean the nerf was fair or justified. Your also making assumptions what your in game name?Quote:
Originally Posted by lyk12345
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Also people complaining about Bar Op is just ridiculous. Bar was ONLY OP when there was gun wall or if you were outnumbered. If you're PKING or sparring against them 1 v 1 you could easily beat them, you just have to notice their pattern, take advantage of their lack variety in footwork & positioning, also take advantage of your surroundings & work with your guns'' strengths, very few Bar users have been memorable IMHO best I've faced was Bruno Tataglia. All this nerfing seems like dumbing down the skill level just because a lot of players are unwilling to go out & put in the time & effort to get good.
I used a 65k & I lost more 5-8K loses with 1.5k wins before I started winning against bar thats because my guns had unique qualityes & I didn't know how to work to its strengths, now after I've gotten good Kim Jong Bitz is complaining my gun is too OP & decides to nerf & give people who don't bother to work & get good an advantage. Honestly this seems like silly game of wack a mole, its only a matter of time before Kim Jong Bitz decides the new popular gun is too OP or too good for its price & decides to nerf it, without seeing how much effort we put in to getting good.
Honestly, this is very discouraging why should we be the one who get punished because of noobs who don''t bother to get good?
Whats the point of putting in effort to learn & save for a gun, only to to have an admin decides later after you've mastered your craft that its not fair on noobs so lets nerf your gun to be fair to lazy noobs?
How about nerfing the minigun too? It is a spammy weapon too because you just hold the fire button and you kill many people with it just in few seconds
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Literally nowhere in that statement did I mention the word PK or said that I PKed.Quote:
Originally Posted by hohi416
Mini was nerfed several times already. I doubt he will touch it again. It's also not that good only descent for pk imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexDanielPali
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