READ- Weapon Rebalancing

Can some1 tell me the reason why chem got banned from bases, i cant find it in this thread

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idk how active this post is but i just got back from quitting and thought i'd give my opinion

I love these balance changes, they make the game a lot more skill orientated and less spammy (especially spar).
additionally, more guns are now viable so i can use guns i've never really been able to before (like socom <3). this is also great because it opens up new strategies and pushes the meta of this game.
overall i agree with all the changes and think that these changes will be very healthy for the game.

now new players wont have to buy the most expensive guns to be able to compete. i have over 30 guns but have never been able to use most of them because they just get out-spammed by high tier guns, but now theyre a lot more useful.

good job sam!

edit: also i was telling people that solo p2k was way stronger than its price for awhile, its stats were insane before these nerfs

Little update on the results of this nerf:
• Half a year later the game went from 3.7k regular players to a mere 2.9k on a good weekend day.
• Most sparrers (like myself) have quited due to the lack on variety of useful sparring guns. It is either m4a3 or m4, every now and then a vector sparrer with hos useless 15k "reward", rarely anything else.
• Pkers havent really been affected since BAR was easily replaced with psg, and other mainstream guns werent affected like pbp aa12 shipka etc.
• I am yet to notice any positive results from this nerf.

In conclusion, this game has become far more senseless than it ever was, losing it's best staff like our dearest, Andrew, Anero, Kirzey and many more. We (used just to generalize as i no longer categorize myself as a graalian) are being orchestrated by uninterested high staff like HomelessWitch, and pawns playing alongside her in what is a poor intent of reviving the best times this glorious game went through. Farewell my friends.

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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

Little update on the results of this nerf:
• Half a year later the game went from 3.7k regular players to a mere 2.9k on a good weekend day.
• Most sparrers (like myself) have quited due to the lack on variety of useful sparring guns. It is either m4a3 or m4, every now and then a vector sparrer with hos useless 15k "reward", rarely anything else.
• Pkers havent really been affected since BAR was easily replaced with psg, and other mainstream guns werent affected like pbp aa12 shipka etc.
• I am yet to notice any positive results from this nerf.

In conclusion, this game has become far more senseless than it ever was, losing it's best staff like our dearest, Andrew, Anero, Kirzey and many more. We (used just to generalize as i no longer categorize myself as a graalian) are being orchestrated by uninterested high staff like HomelessWitch, and pawns playing alongside her in what is a poor intent of reviving the best times this glorious game went through. Farewell my friends.

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Well , I'll have to disagree with you in this part.
After Andrew left for good era was in a mess, with no one controlling how things went to biased old staff members , that caused a lot of players to quit not just the 800 players you're talking about.
That's until Hw stepped in and tried her best to improve the game . A couple of months ago , you could barley see a staff member on , but now we've got tons of them ready to help improve the community as well.

Note: By "biased old staff members " i was talking about the Player Relations members who abused their powers .

Andrew didn't leave he was fired and people thought he was just inactive.

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Originally Posted by JungleJimmy

Andrew didn't leave he was fired and people thought he was just inactive.

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Fired your ***

Where is BitzSam?

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Originally Posted by JimmY1809

Where is BitzSam?

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Somewhere in Australia

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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

Little update on the results of this nerf:
• Half a year later the game went from 3.7k regular players to a mere 2.9k on a good weekend day.
• Most sparrers (like myself) have quited due to the lack on variety of useful sparring guns. It is either m4a3 or m4, every now and then a vector sparrer with hos useless 15k "reward", rarely anything else.
• Pkers havent really been affected since BAR was easily replaced with psg, and other mainstream guns werent affected like pbp aa12 shipka etc.
• I am yet to notice any positive results from this nerf.

In conclusion, this game has become far more senseless than it ever was, losing it's best staff like our dearest, Andrew, Anero, Kirzey and many more. We (used just to generalize as i no longer categorize myself as a graalian) are being orchestrated by uninterested high staff like HomelessWitch, and pawns playing alongside her in what is a poor intent of reviving the best times this glorious game went through. Farewell my friends.

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I agree with this 100%.

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Originally Posted by junz

Name - Vector
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.29
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N


Name - Ion Carbine
Freeze - 0.14 (-0.01) +
Firerate - 0.275 (-0.015) +
Spread - 0.01 (-0.08) -
Clip - 20 (+6) +
Reload - 0.5 (+0.2) -
Bullets - 1 (same)
Auto - No (No auto vs auto) -
Stacked - N (same)

In my opinion, the changes to the ion carbine would make it pretty close to the level of a vector. (which i don't think is a good thing)
IMO this drops the ion carbine tier, i'd much rather deal with the downsides of the vector + only have 0.3 reload freeze than deal with 0.5 reload freeze.
Interesting changes though, complex was a little spammy, so hopefully these changes combat that.

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These are the latest stats


Name - Ion Carbine
Freeze - 0.14
Firerate - 0.29
Spread - 0.01
Clip - 10
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y N
Stacked - N

Name - Vector
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.45
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

The freeze & firerate stats between vector & Ion Carbine can be considered a tradeoff.
Same could be said of the higher clip for reload freeze.
But Vector has enormous spread compared to Ion Carbine which has 0 spread making it a far spammier gun & the bullets harder to dodge.

Low spread & small clip translates to weak defense.
Ion Carbine has always been between M4A3 & GM4.
Ion Carbine should have a a bigger clip so it can at least hold its own defensively, currently its defensively very weak because of the small clip.

Gm4 has clip size 21 & M4A3 has clip size of 16.
Both of these guns has higher spread than Ion Carbine, making it easier to use.

With a 10 clip you get cornered by 95% of the guns eg spectre, GM4, BAR, all of the 65k guns, M4, etc.

Low spread weapons are Generally harder to use which is why guns like Sten is less popular than the high spread BAR, GM4, Vector, M4.

Because of that I think it deserves a buff, maybe in clip or reload freeze.

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Originally Posted by Donald

Same could be said of the higher clip for reload freeze.
But Vector has enormous spread compared to Ion Carbine which has 0 spread making it a far spammier gun & the bullets harder to dodge.

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Going to quickly ignore everything else you said and focus on this one line. You are partially true, however, this statement is mostly wrong. Yeah, a single bullet from a gun with no spread is easier to dodge as compared to one with a lot of spread, however, the spam of guns with a fair amount of spread will be inconsistent and will make a bunch of wholes through which a player can dodge, in the other hand, a gun with no spread can create a literal stream of bullets than can trap a player in a corner making it totally impossible to dodge. This mostly applies to spar where you have a limited amount of space to flow through. Thus you'll more often hear people complaint about people that spar with ion carbine than people that spar with a vector.

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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

Going to quickly ignore everything else you said and focus on this one line. You are partially true, however, this statement is mostly wrong. Yeah, a single bullet from a gun with no spread is easier to dodge as compared to one with a lot of spread, however, the spam of guns with a fair amount of spread will be inconsistent and will make a bunch of wholes through which a player can dodge, in the other hand, a gun with no spread can create a literal stream of bullets than can trap a player in a corner making it totally impossible to dodge. This mostly applies to spar where you have a limited amount of space to flow through. Thus you'll more often hear people complaint about people that spar with ion carbine than people that spar with a vector.

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I don't really hear more people complain about sparring against Ion Carbine than Vector.

I've used both guns & in terms of firerate & freeze they're very very similar.

The main difference is the spread.

Vector although only 4 bullets more than Ion Carbine is less vulnerable on the reload because of its spread people will be wary of getting too close to you.

Ion Carbine cannot do that which is why I feel no spread combined with low clip & average reload is too much of a weakness for a gun thats supposed to be better than Vector.

You mentioned the undodgable stream of bullets from Carbine & in my experience thats mostly applicable if your enemy is really really weak.

The holes in Vector bullets aren't easy to dodge in my experience because of the high firerate.

I'm assuming you have both guns as well, which do you currently prefer?

I'm not asking for much, I'm just asking for Carbine to be given an average clip so that in the future Ion Carbine vs Vector is determined mostly by skill rather than repeatedly exploiting Ion Carbine's clip.

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Originally Posted by Donald

I don't really hear more people complain about sparring against Ion Carbine than Vector.

I've used both guns & in terms of firerate & freeze they're very very similar.

The main difference is the spread.

Vector although only 4 bullets more than Ion Carbine is less vulnerable on the reload because of its spread people will be wary of getting too close to you.

Ion Carbine cannot do that which is why I feel no spread combined with low clip & average reload is too much of a weakness for a gun thats supposed to be better than Vector.

You mentioned the undodgable stream of bullets from Carbine & in my experience thats mostly applicable if your enemy is really really weak.

The holes in Vector bullets aren't easy to dodge in my experience because of the high firerate.

I'm assuming you have both guns as well, which do you currently prefer?

I'm not asking for much, I'm just asking for Carbine to be given an average clip so that in the future Ion Carbine vs Vector is determined mostly by skill rather than repeatedly exploiting Ion Carbine's clip.

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"Vector's fast firerate?"? Vector is a very, and I mean to enphazise this, Very slow weapon lately. Before the nerf I could've had agreed with you, but ever since, the vector is pretty much useless, occupying a very alike place in my heart as the hk16 and handgun do, as a display of skill given how bad both items are for sparring.
And yes I have used both items quiet a while. I would still prefer ion, but wouldn't change it for vector given how much it took me to obtain it. About 3 months BTW.

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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

"Vector's fast firerate?"? Vector is a very, and I mean to enphazise this, Very slow weapon lately. Before the nerf I could've had agreed with you, but ever since, the vector is pretty much useless, occupying a very alike place in my heart as the hk16 and handgun do, as a display of skill given how bad both items are for sparring.
And yes I have used both items quiet a while. I would still prefer ion, but wouldn't change it for vector given how much it took me to obtain it. About 3 months BTW.

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Name - Vector
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.45
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

Vector is not Very slow.

Its the same ROF as M4.

Name - M4
Freeze - 0.1945
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.1
Clip - 16
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

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The only 8 dmg weapons faster than Vector is Mp5A5, M4A3, MtarX, PDWSD, Default Rifle, MetalStorm, Ion Pistols, P2ks & Ion Carbine.

That makes Vector on the same level or faster than 90-90% of the single fire 8 dmg bullets guns.

Plus the difference is 0.01, I don't know how you can possibly say that that makes Ion Carbine fast & Vector Very slow.

I have it as well & I can confirm well that their ROF is so close that the difference is almost insignificant.

I've already said no spread & low clip with a average reload speed makes Carbine extremely vulnerable to rushes from higher clip & higher spread guns like Bar.

A higher clip or faster reload speed for Ion Carbine will prevent such rushes & spam & will focus the battle more on tactics & movement rather than cheap tactics.

Plus Bitzsam said he will be making sure the gun hierarchy will remain unchanged in the Original Weapon Rebalancing thread.

I've spared daily for the past 3 years, & I can tell you undoubtedly Ion Carbine was better than Vector before the nerf.

Thats something even Bitzsam will tell you.

Its always been

1. M4A3
2. Ion Carbine
3. Gm4
4. Vector

The same couldn't be said right now & thats something Bitzsam has to reexamine.

Were dual rafficas nerfed ??

I would like to point out that no one is reading the essays you're writing...

Name - Ion Carbine
Freeze - 0.14
Firerate - 0.25
Spread - 0.01
Clip - 20
Reload - 0.2
Bullets - 1
Auto - Y
Stacked - N

Name - Vector
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.29
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

These are the pre-nerf stats of Ion Carbine & Vector.

Before Ion Carbine had a 0.04 faster firerate than Vector , & a bigger clip by 6 with a 0.1 faster reload time & it was auto.




Name - Ion Carbine
Freeze - 0.14
Firerate - 0.29
Spread - 0.01
Clip - 10
Reload - 0.3
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N


Name - Vector
Freeze - 0.15
Firerate - 0.3
Spread - 0.09
Clip - 14
Reload - 0.45
Bullets - 1
Auto - N
Stacked - N

These are the current Ion Carbine & Vector stats.
Currently Ion Carbine is worst or on the same level as Vector.

A 0.01 less freeze & a 0.01 faster firerate is not enough to say Ion Carbine is better than Vector.

Its true Ion Carbine with no spread is able to create a stream of undodgable bullets but that is only possible IF you can create the opening.

No spread guns are at a disadvantage when creating opening.

Ion Carbine having a higher firerate before was justified because it had to make riskier moves compared to Vector which can stay safe and rely on its spread.

Its advantage was in its rush.

Now the lack of better choice is not compensated by higher firerate.


Ion Carbine is at a disadvantage in terms of rushing & creating opening.

No spread weapons really do have to spar riskier.

Its too one dimensional with no clear sign on what its really good at.

firerate & freeze wise they're too close to say Ion Carbine is a clear winner.

Clip wise its a joke.

Its as Junz said this drops the Ion Carbine tier significantly, which should not be the case, you promised in your initial thread that you would be making sure the gun hierarchy remains unchanged, you should stick true to your words.

I don't know why you are making such a fuss over the ion carbine v vector.

1. The ion carbines original stats were based off of the GM4- the Vector is intended to also be at a similar level as the GM4. If they are the same then there is nothing wrong with that.
2. Your view on the Ion being worse is completely subjective. The Ion carbines stats are more comparable to the m4a3 in it's firerate, freeze and spread. It is beat out by the slightly larger clip and slightly faster reload. It is fairly accepted that the m4a3 definitely is NOT worse than the vector, therefore how can the ion carbine be worse than it. If anything it sits in between the vector/ gm4 and the m4a3 in terms of its hierarchy.
3. Even if I decided to completely change the ion carbine, that would not influence what I said. The ion is an ec gun, you did not pay for it. The main reason I was upholding the weapon hierarchy was because the majority of those guns cost gralats, that players paid for with money. Ec items take time to earn in most cases yes, but they do not hold the same monetary value as shop guns and are therefore subject to more extensive rebalances/ nerfs, as you saw with the significant changes made towards the chem gun.

You get more than enough value from the Ion Carbine compared to most ec items. You get an extremely good weapon, with a 9 damage melee and additional attachment. Of which you left out in your comparison, as the ion carbine attachment can be utilised to get a very easy final hit on someone on 9 hp or below. Something the vector can't do.

Yeah bitzsam how about you explain why you thought it was a good idea to nerf raffica instead of kmp9. (They cost about 300-500k btw, letting you know since we KNOW you dont actually buy auction guns)

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And yes im going to keep harassing you in game because youre a s.o.b who should have just kept to your graphics, now youre the most hated admin in the history of iera and all you can do is try and block out all the haters with whatever social mechanisms you practice regularly. In my eyes youre just some random who showed up to do a job that shouldnt be held down by one person in the first place.

And for the record, m4 is op

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Originally Posted by Austin

Yeah bitzsam how about you explain why you thought it was a good idea to nerf raffica instead of kmp9. (They cost about 300-500k btw, letting you know since we KNOW you dont actually buy auction guns)

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And yes im going to keep harassing you in game because youre a s.o.b who should have just kept to your graphics, now youre the most hated admin in the history of iera and all you can do is try and block out all the haters with whatever social mechanisms you practice regularly. In my eyes youre just some random who showed up to do a job that shouldnt be held down by one person in the first place.

And for the record, m4 is op you dotard.

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i think i lost my gpa reading this. Im not even gonna try this one,,,,Passing it on!

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Originally Posted by Austin

Yeah bitzsam how about you explain why you thought it was a good idea to nerf raffica instead of kmp9. (They cost about 300-500k btw, letting you know since we KNOW you dont actually buy auction guns)

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And yes im going to keep harassing you in game because youre a s.o.b who should have just kept to your graphics, now youre the most hated admin in the history of iera and all you can do is try and block out all the haters with whatever social mechanisms you practice regularly. In my eyes youre just some random who showed up to do a job that shouldnt be held down by one person in the first place.

And for the record, m4 is op

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lmao.




M4 is def not op

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Originally Posted by MasonForEc

i think i lost my gpa reading this. Im not even gonna try this one,,,,Passing it on!

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You literally have gotten 500 posts in 3 months, dude, what even is this?

He's aggressively asking for an explanation as to why his Raffica was nerfed rather than his KMP9.
Uh, the harassment part really isn't necessary and I think he should calm down. His harassment part is kinda senseless and foolish, but the beginning gets the point across so..

Lowering all the tiers to "completely unusable", as of the vector and gm4 tier, doesnt justify for them being equally as bad. All that was really needed on the ion carbine was perhaps a very VERY slight fire rate nerf and fixing the hitbox which was insanely overpowered. Other than that all those other nerfs were completely unexplainable. You dont do events, spars nor auctions to understand how truly those changes matter to us. To you they are merely digits.

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Originally Posted by iMagicBae

Lowering all the tiers to "completely unusable", as of the vector and gm4 tier, doesnt justify for them being equally as bad. All that was really needed on the ion carbine was perhaps a very VERY slight fire rate nerf and fixing the hitbox which was insanely overpowered. Other than that all those other nerfs were completely unexplainable. You dont do events, spars nor auctions to understand how truly those changes matter to us. To you they are merely digits.

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I am aware of that, but you need to also understand that there are multiple issues that arised from the top tier guns, of being excessively good in multiple stat areas that mean that there is literally 0 reason for any gun diversity, and meant that any gun that ever gets added in the future will be deemed as useless, unless it's statistically better than the BAR.

I don't think you realise that when the top gun gets nerfed, there is a rippling effect of nerfs that have to occur, or else the guns below it would be seen as 'better' than before, as its prior competition is no longer as effective.


Ion doesn't have an increased hitbox, a hitbox variable doesn't exist for guns aside from those with the explosive effect as that's built in to the explosion.

So raffica was really nerfed

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Rip 341410 gralats spent on rafficas

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Originally Posted by BL1NK

You literally have gotten 500 posts in 3 months, dude, what even is this?

He's aggressively asking for an explanation as to why his Raffica was nerfed rather than his KMP9.
Uh, the harassment part really isn't necessary and I think he should calm down. His harassment part is kinda senseless and foolish, but the beginning gets the point across so..

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Im commenting on how unthought out it was, dont talk to me about posting when ive posted more in a couple months. While it took you a year just to get 600...

If you cant handle my comedic passing it ons, I cant help you. Buts its pretty obvious his argument is flawed just as your reason to disclaim me is.


And its called being active in the forums you should try it some time.

He showed lack of empathy for Bitzsam simply because his favorite gun was nerfed? I dont think that justifies his approach.

What're the new stats for the rafficas?

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Originally Posted by MasonForEc

Im commenting on how unthought out it was, dont talk to me about posting when ive posted more in a couple months. While it took you a year just to get 600...

If you cant handle my comedic passing it ons, I cant help you. Buts its pretty obvious his argument is flawed just as your reason to disclaim me is.


And its called being active in the forums you should try it some time.

He showed lack of empathy for Bitzsam simply because his favorite gun was nerfed? I dont think that justifies his approach.

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Youre pretty cool, im right here. Graal forums is effing trash compared to real life. Your “comedic” pass ons are basically just boosting your posts? How is forums even a competition-i thought nobody cares.

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Originally Posted by Austin

Youre pretty cool, im right here. Graal forums is effing trash compared to real life. Your “comedic” pass ons are basically just boosting your posts? How is forums even a competition-i thought nobody cares.

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Its not, and apparently you dont value the internet as such. Obviously life is better than graal forums, but if the forums are trash why are you on them? My comedic pass was simply not to waste my time on your Half-thought out argument, but seeing as you want to argue your case, go ahead.

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Originally Posted by Knuckles

What're the new stats for the rafficas?

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I'd like to know this as well.

I'd also like a bit of transparency on a seperate closed thread that lists and dates the changes made on guns so that players can actually be informed if something is being changed instead of finding out and experiencing drastic changes.

Sort of like a "patch notes."

Lmao i got on for the first time in over a month now i got your random weak little *** trying to insult me. You really are some compensative twat. You can just admit you are boosting your posts. And i can honestly say my post was half *** and blunt. then you decided to provoke me with your worthless opinion. Seriously PLEASE pass more posts-bump some more threads because you are just here to cheer yourself up and you aint ****.

Dont give me any ****, im graduated, i work hard, iv been places, and i know a keyboard warrior when i see one. This places limits me and it appears its the only place for you to make yourself feel bigger.

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I dont own kmp9 i just know it has barely less damage than rafficas, it has more spread and lower everything else compared to rafficas. It costs as much as an m4 to duel yet kids manage to do pretty damn well with them. Im not even gonna go on forums again, nothing gets done anyways.

^^^what he said

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Originally Posted by imaginary

^^^what he said

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I get why some auction guns were modified but with rafficas being two separate items that you need to buy for them to be used effectively, I do think it should have been left alone.

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Originally Posted by Austin

Lmao i got on for the first time in over a month now i got your random weak little *** trying to insult me. You really are some compensative twat. You can just admit you are boosting your posts. And i can honestly say my post was half *** and blunt. then you decided to provoke me with your worthless opinion. Seriously PLEASE pass more posts-bump some more threads because you are just here to cheer yourself up and you aint ****.

Dont give me any ****, im graduated, i work hard, iv been places, and i know a keyboard warrior when i see one. This places limits me and it appears its the only place for you to make yourself feel bigger.

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I dont own kmp9 i just know it has barely less damage than rafficas, it has more spread and lower everything else compared to rafficas. It costs as much as an m4 to duel yet kids manage to do pretty damn well with them. Im not even gonna go on forums again, nothing gets done anyways.

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You said you've worked hard graduated, yet here you are complaining about bitzams Gun management,while thinking calling me **** will win you any award.
Im the keyboard warrior... get a kick out of yourself. Since when do you decide why i post?

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Originally Posted by Austin

Lmao i got on for the first time in over a month now i got your random weak little *** trying to insult me. You really are some compensative twat. You can just admit you are boosting your posts. And i can honestly say my post was half *** and blunt. then you decided to provoke me with your worthless opinion. Seriously PLEASE pass more posts-bump some more threads because you are just here to cheer yourself up and you aint ****.

Dont give me any ****, im graduated, i work hard, iv been places, and i know a keyboard warrior when i see one. This places limits me and it appears its the only place for you to make yourself feel bigger.

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I dont own kmp9 i just know it has barely less damage than rafficas, it has more spread and lower everything else compared to rafficas. It costs as much as an m4 to duel yet kids manage to do pretty damn well with them. Im not even gonna go on forums again, nothing gets done anyways.

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You're completely wrong, the raffica change was literally a 0.005 decrease in firerate from 0.345- 0.35. KMP9 dual is worse than raffica in every category other than spread where it's equal. Worse freeze, worse firerate, worse reload time, worse damage. Stop over-dramatising things just to try get people who don't own the gun to know for themselves, have sympathy for you. The gun is literally bugged and can occasionally do 18 damage, and is easily the best auction gun

I suggest you tweak raffica spread, most of the time the bullets are basically touching each other.

Raffica’s freeze was increased aswell

BITZSAM

Y U no finish countryside instead of pissing off the community?!

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

You're completely wrong, the raffica change was literally a 0.005 decrease in firerate from 0.345- 0.35. KMP9 dual is worse than raffica in every category other than spread where it's equal. Worse freeze, worse firerate, worse reload time, worse damage. Stop over-dramatising things just to try get people who don't own the gun to know for themselves, have sympathy for you. The gun is literally bugged and can occasionally do 18 damage, and is easily the best auction gun

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Well can we start getting a bit of a heads up to changes you make either permanently or temporarily so that we're not rudely awakened to a different gun?

A majority of the problem being why people are so upset by the changes is the complete lack of communication, along with the feeling that our suggestions aren't being meaningfully considered.

It would be nice if you made a thread only accessible to you where you make a log of the changes you make and have us comment on it on a separate thread, so that there's actual dialogue between the patch notes/ reasoning behind the change and any tweaking after that.

Not posting any information forces us to try and judge purely by what we see, which you argue is highly inaccurate, but given that that's all we can really do, it's not completely our fault.

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Originally Posted by AliGamer911

BITZSAM

Y U no finish countryside instead of pissing off the community?!

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stop, k just stop.