READ- Weapon Rebalancing

[Donald]

And a faster reload; which amplifies the effects of the higher clip size. =D

As I've said, I think the guns needed a nerf.
I think they could have been done a little less harsh, but I don't think the balance is quite over yet.

We went 6 years basing guns off of a system that has just been shuffled, so it's going to take more than a couple months to get it back to equilibrium.

On the matter of basing:

It's evident that something needed to happen to shake Basing up abit.
I'm glad that something has been shifted that can potentially get the ball is finally rolling.

Basing as it was provided little incentive to do anything other than hire/ally a bunch of friends and AFK your way to the top.
That type of watered-down gameplay was bound to cause a decline in player interest.

As I mentioned in this thread, while I think Guns were part of the problem, I don't think that they were the real issue with basing.

If "Operation: Improve Basing" was to be seriously discussed, and all avenues were considered, I would have rather seen the issues with healing, base layouts, and respawns be tackled before major gun adjustments would have been made.

I voiced heavily on this last year on Graalians:
http://www.graalians.com/forums/show...1&postcount=68

One particular quote from that post that is of relevance here:


But again - I'm happy to see some changes being made, because it could lead to some discussion for breakthrough improvements.

Several questions Meph.
1. What do you mean by'' “respawn locations” throughout the map, where each player can
elect to respawn when they die''?
2. Whats you alternative to '' Buildling blowing up upon capture''?
3. Whats your favourite base layout?

[jaxwashere]

This is one of the most relevant threads in forum history some of you so called "senior staff" need to step up to the plate.


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[Meph]

Several questions Meph.
1. What do you mean by'' “respawn locations” throughout the map, where each player can elect to respawn when they die''?

Respawn Locations would be little healing huts where you can choose to respawn at when you are killed, assuming you have VIP (or the healing potion).

It would look something like this (Spawn points are indicated by Yellow Triangles):

So let's assume you and I decide to raid Tachi.

We would first stop at the respawn locations nearest Tachi (#2 or #3 in the picture), select that as our respawn spot, and then proceed to raid.
That way, any time we die, we would respawn there.

What these respawn points would do is extend the time that you have to “celebrate” after killing off opponents – either use the time to kill off the rest of your enemies, bring the flag more into your gang’s favor, or heal yourselves.

As it is now, you literally have to pulverize your opponents to advance in a raiding or defending effort.
If you’re fighting three people and you kill one, you have to kill the other two within the next 15 seconds, because he’ll be back at full HP; it’s almost like it rewards them for dying.

This would also permit good gang leaders to rise above the bad ones, as raiding efforts would include the element of regrouping and organizing a wave with which to raid, if they are to take over a base successfully.

2. Whats you alternative to '' Buildling blowing up upon capture''?

As for “what would replace the base exploding upon takeover”: respawning would.

The whole point in the base exploding is to clear out the base so that the new owners can have time to celebrate their victory.

Unfortunately, it comes with the side-effect of encouraging people to neglect the fight, and opt to rush the flag instead.

Also, when you take the base over and it explodes, everybody who was in the base is now at full HP, and you’re being hit with the most concentrated raid effort imaginable – so your brief celebration is quickly turned to “Get ready, boys! Everybody’s coming at us full force now!”

As I pointed out in my discussion about remote respawn locations, defenders would have this “celebration time” upon every opponent they kill, thus conducting the flow of the fight to be in tune with the people playing it; without the side effects mentioned.

3. Whats your favourite base layout?

My current favorite base is Neo Zone, because it already has the remote respawn system in effect, healing is moderated, and the base layout (particularly the area around the flag) has enough room to where your superior fighting ability can count for something.

A lot of the other bases, as nice as they may look, almost seems as if they did not consider the fact that combat was going to take place within them.
Most of the layouts encourage and reward sissy behavior, where the defenders achieve victory primarily by a camping advantage.

The areas around the flag do not permit enough room for a real fight to break out – it’s generally defensive campers vs offensive campers, and the defensive campers have the advantage of getting a few hits on the offensive campers before they can even get into the fight.

Here’s what it looks like in action:

 Spoiler

The gameplay yielded by “camper vs camper” bases is extremely watered down, rewards quantity instead of quality (after all, a newbie can camp just as effectively as a veteran-- there isn’t enough room for a veteran to really showcase their superior fighting ability), and worsens the barrier-to-entry faced by newer gangs going against established gangs.

Bottom line: The more emphasis we have on the fight, the better the basing experience is.
Camping is not a suitable substitute for fighting, nor is flag rushing, or shoving hotdogs in your mouth.

Adjusting these gameplay flaws (plus altering the healing items as prescribed here) would have been more effective in improving the basing experience than nerfing guns.

[Donald]

Meph if we change the way healing works what would happen to the healing staffs?
Also wouldn't having huts really slow things down for both party?
Like if they choose to spam at doors or whatever & I walk in & I can't heal wouldn't that make spamming effective?
Also are you saying that with those huts then you'd keep the base exploding upon capture because that would allow the celebration time without being steam rolled by the most concentrated raid effort imaginable am I right?

Meph does Neo have all of your suggestions?
Meph is Neo a popular base?

[GenoIndeed]

Respawn Locations would be little healing huts where you can choose to respawn at when you are killed, assuming you have VIP (or the healing potion).

It would look something like this (Spawn points are indicated by Yellow Triangles):

So let's assume you and I decide to raid Tachi.

We would first stop at the respawn locations nearest Tachi (#2 or #3 in the picture), select that as our respawn spot, and then proceed to raid.
That way, any time we die, we would respawn there.

What these respawn points would do is extend the time that you have to “celebrate” after killing off opponents – either use the time to kill off the rest of your enemies, bring the flag more into your gang’s favor, or heal yourselves.

As it is now, you literally have to pulverize your opponents to advance in a raiding or defending effort.
If you’re fighting three people and you kill one, you have to kill the other two within the next 15 seconds, because he’ll be back at full HP; it’s almost like it rewards them for dying.

This would also permit good gang leaders to rise above the bad ones, as raiding efforts would include the element of regrouping and organizing a wave with which to raid, if they are to take over a base successfully.


As for “what would replace the base exploding upon takeover”: respawning would.

The whole point in the base exploding is to clear out the base so that the new owners can have time to celebrate their victory.

Unfortunately, it comes with the side-effect of encouraging people to neglect the fight, and opt to rush the flag instead.

Also, when you take the base over and it explodes, everybody who was in the base is now at full HP, and you’re being hit with the most concentrated raid effort imaginable – so your brief celebration is quickly turned to “Get ready, boys! Everybody’s coming at us full force now!”

As I pointed out in my discussion about remote respawn locations, defenders would have this “celebration time” upon every opponent they kill, thus conducting the flow of the fight to be in tune with the people playing it; without the side effects mentioned.


My current favorite base is Neo Zone, because it already has the remote respawn system in effect, healing is moderated, and the base layout (particularly the area around the flag) has enough room to where your superior fighting ability can count for something.

A lot of the other bases, as nice as they may look, almost seems as if they did not consider the fact that combat was going to take place within them.
Most of the layouts encourage and reward sissy behavior, where the defenders achieve victory primarily by a camping advantage.

The areas around the flag do not permit enough room for a real fight to break out – it’s generally defensive campers vs offensive campers, and the defensive campers have the advantage of getting a few hits on the offensive campers before they can even get into the fight.

Here’s what it looks like in action:

 Spoiler

The gameplay yielded by “camper vs camper” bases is extremely watered down, rewards quantity instead of quality (after all, a newbie can camp just as effectively as a veteran-- there isn’t enough room for a veteran to really showcase their superior fighting ability), and worsens the barrier-to-entry faced by newer gangs going against established gangs.

Bottom line: The more emphasis we have on the fight, the better the basing experience is.
Camping is not a suitable substitute for fighting, nor is flag rushing, or shoving hotdogs in your mouth.

Adjusting these gameplay flaws (plus altering the healing items as prescribed here) would have been more effective in improving the basing experience than nerfing guns.

Honestly, healing staffs should only heal the owner, its gettings really stupid that the whole team is glowing blue from one person and they quickly heal of any damage if I die or if I'm away from them for 2 seconds, and with these slow guns its even worse than before, can't even base pk anymore. Basing in most places is just a bunch of spam, but now its even harder to break that spam with less people since we have turtle guns. And, there's been less basers, less pkers, just an overall decrease of activity due to the nerfs, myself included because I don't want to play anymore, the pacing is too slow for me since the guns got heavy nerfs, I was here for the fast paced gameplay but thats gone. Solo base pking is ridiculous now since guns are too slow to fight multiple people alone, and they heal faster than I can damage them now. Then, when I took a chance on the akimbos and actually liked them, they got nerfed to where they don't even nearly match its description and that's because they weren't even part of the original nerf plan, they were just nerfed because Sam didn't calculate this correctly and has to basically nerf everything now. This whole thing is stupid, I'm not about to waste my time and money on this game anymore, there's nothing for me here now.

[Donald]

LOL Turtle guns XD its funny cause its true

[JustJoshuaVega]

Don't know why people are still posting about this gun problem I'm legit over it bitzsam can do whatever he wants I'm against him in the gun station but honestly I don't give 3 Sh*ts about the guns on this game


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[JustJoshuaVega]

He isn't gonna listen so there's no reason to post comments on here


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[Meph]

Meph if we change the way healing works what would happen to the healing staffs?

Healing staffs could stay the way they are; those who equip them and activate the healing modes are extremely vulnerable to gunfire.
Making food items less effective would give more value to those who have healing staffs.

They would act in the role of a "medic", sacrificing their ability to push off opponents with return-fire for the ability to heal their teammates.

Also wouldn't having huts really slow things down for both party?

It would only slow things down for those who die a lot.

The object of the game is to stay alive; the fact that people currently receive very little incentive to stay alive is an issue.

Gangs who wish to be successful would be encouraged to hire quality members who do not die that often.

If they choose to spam at doors or whatever & I walk in & I can't heal wouldn't that make spamming effective?

If the base is designed properly, simply spamming at a doorway would not solely be a successful defensive strategy.
A gang shouldn't be able to achieve victory by focusing all of their energy in any one spot of a base.

It's for this reason that multiple entrances are created, and the main fighting grounds of a base level has enough open space to quickly overcome any spam with dodging ability.

So running with the assumption that bases are created properly, no; spamming shouldn't be more effective.

Spamming should never be an effective strategy, as it should come with a balancing mechanism that gives it a vulnerability in exchange for the ability to spam.
That vulnerability can range from lower damage, to higher freeze, to slower walk speed, to slower reload.

This also assumes the Gun Admin has done their job at properly balancing high RoF guns.
But again - I would look at other issues before assuming guns are the issue; as people have spent money on them for the stats that they represented at the time of purchase.

Also are you saying that with those huts then you'd keep the base exploding upon capture

The 'exploding base upon capture' would be removed entirely, as its purpose would be satisfied by the remote respawn =D.

If respawns are further away from the base, an effective gang would clear out the base themselves.
They wouldn't need the game to assist them in clearing it out, because opponents would be coming at them much slower.

Unless the raiding gang has organized a concentrated group themselves (which takes time), the defending gang will only be fighting a couple people at a time.

On the flip side, the Defenders would also be spawning at a remote location.
So when an effective group comes through and kills off a defender, they'll have more time to kill the rest of them before the defender returns.

Again - this puts the success of the basing efforts (defending or raiding) in the hands of leadership.

Meph does Neo have all of your suggestions?

Sort of.
All healing items are disabled in Neo, and the only way to heal in the base is to use the provided beds, or grabbable medkits.

Also, when you die in Neo, you're warped to a small hut, but not at full HP.
This is because the hut is so close to Neo that, in order to create a sufficient delay between killing opponents and their return, we needed to make the user respawn at lower HP.

Given the distance between the proposed heal hut locations and the bases, they would respawn at full HP.

Meph is Neo a popular base?

That depends on what the objective is =D.

For people who actually want a fight, I'd say it's very popular.

But for people who are just trying to get hours, probably not.
Primarily because it doesn't give any extra hours for the extra effort required to defend.

In other bases, people can practically AFK behind locked doors for their hours, while 1 or 2 people cover the narrow hallways.
By contrast, in Neo Zone, you need to be actively defending the base, because if somebody breaks in, you are vulnerable to their attacks.

It leaves people saying, "Why should I put in the extra work, if it's much easier at Tachi, for the same reward?"

If all bases required the defender to have a pulse while they were defending, Neo would be more popular. =D

[JustJoshuaVega]

Healing staffs could stay the way they are; those who equip them and activate the healing modes are extremely vulnerable to gunfire.
Making food items less effective would give more value to those who have healing staffs.

They would act in the role of a "medic", sacrificing their ability to push off opponents with return-fire for the ability to heal their teammates.

It would only slow things down for those who die a lot.

The object of the game is to stay alive; the fact that people currently receive very little incentive to stay alive is an issue.

Gangs who wish to be successful would be encouraged to hire quality members who do not die that often.

If the base is designed properly, simply spamming at a doorway would not solely be a successful defensive strategy.
A gang shouldn't be able to achieve victory by focusing all of their energy in any one spot of a base.

It's for this reason that multiple entrances are created, and the main fighting grounds of a base level has enough open space to quickly overcome any spam with dodging ability.

So running with the assumption that bases are created properly, no; spamming shouldn't be more effective.

Spamming should never be an effective strategy, as it should come with a balancing mechanism that gives it a vulnerability in exchange for the ability to spam.
That vulnerability can range from lower damage, to higher freeze, to slower walk speed, to slower reload.

This also assumes the Gun Admin has done their job at properly balancing high RoF guns.
But again - I would look at other issues before assuming guns are the issue; as people have spent money on them for the stats that they represented at the time of purchase.


The 'exploding base upon capture' would be removed entirely, as its purpose would be satisfied by the remote respawn =D.

If respawns are further away from the base, an effective gang would clear out the base themselves.
They wouldn't need the game to assist them in clearing it out, because opponents would be coming at them much slower.

Unless the raiding gang has organized a concentrated group themselves (which takes time), the defending gang will only be fighting a couple people at a time.

On the flip side, the Defenders would also be spawning at a remote location.
So when an effective group comes through and kills off a defender, they'll have more time to kill the rest of them before the defender returns.

Again - this puts the success of the basing efforts (defending or raiding) in the hands of leadership.

Sort of.
All healing items are disabled in Neo, and the only way to heal in the base is to use the provided beds, or grabbable medkits.

Also, when you die in Neo, you're warped to a small hut, but not at full HP.
This is because the hut is so close to Neo that, in order to create a sufficient delay between killing opponents and their return, we needed to make the user respawn at lower HP.

Given the distance between the proposed heal hut locations and the bases, they would respawn at full HP.

That depends on what the objective is =D.

For people who actually want a fight, I'd say it's very popular.

But for people who are just trying to get hours, probably not.
Primarily because it doesn't give any extra hours for the extra effort required to defend.

In other bases, people can practically AFK behind locked doors for their hours, while 1 or 2 people cover the narrow hallways.
By contrast, in Neo Zone, you need to be actively defending the base, because if somebody breaks in, you are vulnerable to their attacks.

It leaves people saying, "Why should I put in the extra work, if it's much easier at Tachi, for the same reward?"

If all bases required the defender to have a pulse while they were defending, Neo would be more popular. =D

Meph 9am eastern standard time? Scores will be released for qualifying ???


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