Gunshots Tradable Permits

[BlackandWhite]

Did u not read my clarification on taxes vs tradable permits?

Taxes regulates the use of an item through prices (something that everyone does not want and I have not suggested this either) while tradable permits directly regulates the use of an item (which is what I am getting at)

taxes are one-way payment whike tradable permits are just like any other trade transactions.

You seem to assume that the permits have to be gotten through payments and so you say its a tax. Its a wrong assumption. Just because I put the permits up to the free market, you assume that its a tax when its transaction of items (just like any other goods).

You analogy is flawed as that is clearly an imposition of a tax. I have not written that in my idea please read first post.

I will develop from your analogy. When I pay 50 shells, I am paying for the trade permit (a product) that allows me to trade (a utility gained from the product). This is not a tax as a tax is a payement that does not give me any product.

If I pay 100 gralats for a gun (a product) that allows me to kill (a use of the product), can I say that the 100 gralats is a tax? NO!


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1. You’re misrepresenting me. Obviously no is arguing that cost=tax. If I bought a minigun from Aim Point, obviously the 200 000 gralat price tag is not a tax. However, if the only way to buy guns is if I purchase a gun permit for 50 gralats- than the 50 gralats would be tax.

2. The necessary criterion of tax IS NOT to, “regulates the use of an item through prices,” “one-way payment,” or, “does not give me any product.” Perhaps it is characteristics or symptoms of taxes but it is not its essential nature. Hence, I fail to see how this bears any importance. After all, taxes are, to the core, a form of compulsory levy/ charge incurred/ imposed on x thing.

3. Is it not so tradeable permits directly regulate the use of an item via an incurred payment of melees/ sellables etc. That is, if I wanted to shoot more gunshots than the permissible amount I must pay/ trade/ transaction for example 50 shells from someone.

4. However, a permit is not “any other goods”, it’s mandated if one wishes to shoot more than the permissible amount. Just because I must trade for it or via any other thin veils instead of it being directly subtracted from my account makes no difference; the result remains the same.

5. My analogy was to purely demonstrate how I define taxes

[LYK08]

1.You’re misrepresenting me. Obviously no is arguing that cost=tax. If I bought a minigun from Aim Point, obviously the 200 000 gralat price tag is not a tax. However, if the only way to buy guns is if I purchase a gun permit for 50 gralats- than the 50 gralats would be tax.

2.The necessary criterion of tax IS NOT to, “regulates the use of an item through prices,” “one-way payment,” or, “does not give me any product.” Perhaps it is characteristics or symptoms of taxes but it is not its essential nature. Hence, I fail to see how this bears any importance. After all, taxes are, to the core, a form of compulsory levy/ charge incurred/ imposed on x thing.

3.Is it not so tradeable permits directly regulate the use of an item via an incurred payment of melees/ sellables etc. That is, if I wanted to shoot more gunshots than the permissible amount I must pay/ trade/ transaction for example 50 shells from someone.

4.However, a permit is not “any other goods”, it’s mandated if one wishes to shoot more than the permissible amount. Just because I must trade for it or via any other thin veils instead of it being directly subtracted from my account makes no difference; the result remains the same.

5. My analogy was to purely demonstrate how I define taxes

Teadable permits achieve a purpose. When I trade for one while exchange using another item, i get a product (the trade permit). This product allows me to achieve a purpose. Its a fair trade and you get a product for what you exchange with.

If ammo refills cost 1000 gralats at a gun shop, when I pay for it, I get the product. The product of ammo allows me to shoot. But the price I pay for the ammo is not a tax, it is to purchase the product.

You insist that the cost in meelees or items = tax. But that is not true, if I exchange for 10k ammo with some shells, do I consider the shells paid to be taxes? No! Its a barter trade where I get the ammo,the player gets the shells.



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[BlackandWhite]

Teadable permits achieve a purpose. When I trade for one while exchange using another item, i get a product (the trade permit). This product allows me to achieve a purpose. Its a fair trade and you get a product for what you exchange with.

If ammo refills cost 1000 gralats at a gun shop, when I pay for it, I get the product. The product of ammo allows me to shoot. But the price I pay for the ammo is not a tax, it is to purchase the product.

1. You’re misrepresenting me. Obviously no is arguing that cost=tax. If I bought a minigun from Aim Point, obviously the 200 000 gralat price tag is not a tax. However, if the only way to buy guns is if I purchase a gun permit for 50 gralats- than the 50 gralats would be tax.

You insist that the cost in meelees or items = tax. But that is not true, if I exchange for 10k ammo with some shells, do I consider the shells paid to be taxes? No! Its a barter trade where I get the ammo,the player gets the shells.

You’re misrepresenting me. Obviously no is arguing that bartering=tax. You’re omitting a very blatant fact that one is required to buy a permit if one wishes to shoot more gunshots than the permissible amount. Obviously, intrinsically purchasing a product via sellables/ melees etc. is not a form of tax. But the imposed cost of pking more via a permit (to which one must buy) is tax.

Just because I must trade for it or via any other thin veils instead of it being directly subtracted from my account makes no difference; the result remains the same.

[Abdullah1441]

Lyk, let's say that this permit isn't classified as a tax, the community still does not want this implemented.

[LYK08]

You’re misrepresenting me. Obviously no is arguing that bartering=tax. You’re omitting a very blatant fact that one is required to buy a permit if one wishes to shoot more gunshots than the permissible amount. Obviously, intrinsically purchasing a product via sellables/ melees etc. is not a form of tax. But the imposed cost of pking more via a permit (to which one must buy) is tax.

Precisely you said it "the cost of buying a permit is tax". So referring to my analogy of me trading shells for 10k ammo, you are saying that the value of the shells paid is tax. I interpreted correctly so now I'm telling you,the monetary value of the shells is not tax. Its the amount I paid to purchase( or in this case, trade) for the 10k ammo. If not , the player is going to give me 10k ammo for free. How is that fair trade?

I think you are mixing up investments with taxes. Say, I pay 500 gralats for 10 shovels to dig shells. If I want to dig more shells, I will need more shovels, so the money spent on shovels is tax. Really?

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[BlackandWhite]

Precisely you said it "the cost of buying a permit is tax". So referring to my analogy of me trading shells for 10k ammo, you are saying that the value of the shells paid is tax. I interpreted correctly so now I'm telling you,the monetary value of the shells is not tax. Its the amount I paid to purchase( or in this case, trade) for the 10k ammo. If not , the player is going to give me 10k ammo for free. How is that fair trade?

I think you are mixing up investments with taxes. Say, I pay 500 gralats for 10 shovels to dig shells. If I want to dig more shells, I will need more shovels, so the money spent on shovels is tax. Really?

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To make sure I understand you completely, would you consider this as a form of tax:

A cost imposed on any shots made after firing a weapon 500 times, at a base cost of 50 gralats for 500 additional shots. If one wants to shoot another 500 shots a cost of 50 gralats will be imposed onto them.

[LYK08]

To make sure I understand you completely, would you consider this as a form of tax:

A cost imposed on any shots made after firing a weapon 500 times, at a base cost of 50 gralats for 500 additional shots. If one wants to shoot another 500 shots a cost of 50 gralats will be imposed onto them.

Well as I said in previous post, you have mixed up investments with tax. I do not consider that a tax and you are oversimplifying.
Would you consider this a form of tax:
A shovel can dig u an amount of shells. After which it breaks and to dig more you have to pay an additional 50 gralats. Now if I oversimplify my analogy like you did, of course it appears to be a tax. But really, do you consider digging in game to be taxed? I doubt so.

Oversimplifying things is an argument fallacy.

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[BlackandWhite]

Well as I said in previous post, you have mixed up investments with tax. I do not consider that a tax and you are oversimplifying.
Would you consider this a form of tax:
A shovel can dig u an amount of shells. After which it breaks and to dig more you have to pay an additional 50 gralats. Now if I oversimplify my analogy like you did, of course it appears to be a tax. But really, do you consider digging in game to be taxed? I doubt so.

Oversimplifying things is an argument fallacy.

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I make no attempt in simplifying your analogy, I'm simply trying to hone in how you define tax. I hope it's clear my reply was a purely hypothetical with no relations; that I conceived of on the spot.

Would you say that a tax is something that necessarily does not grant access/ allowance/ ability to do something. So even though a shovel costs a person 50 gralats since it grants the ability to dig it cannot be cosidered a tax, hence permit/ investment.

[LYK08]

I make no attempt in simplifying your analogy, I'm simply trying to hone in how you define tax. I hope it's clear my reply was a purely hypothetical with no relations; that I conceived of on the spot.

Would you say that a tax is something that necessarily does not grant access/ allowance/ ability to do something. So even though a shovel costs a person 50 gralats since it grants the ability to dig it cannot be cosidered a tax, hence permit/ investment.

I clarified between a tax and tradable permit in one of my earlier posts.

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[BlackandWhite]

I clarified between a tax and tradable permit in one of my earlier posts.

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Clearly you don't understand my clarification and I don't understand you clarification, so I find this reply most unhelpful. I assuming you answer is yes (or at least you presuppose it) since you speak of taxes as, "everyone lose," and permits/ investment as, "achieving a purpose." I find this term "purpose" to be to vague so I hone it down to access/ allowance/ ability; hence according to you (my assumption) purchasing shovels is not a form of tax since it fulfils the purpose of digging - And I am assuming this is the same reasoning to which you say no to my hypothetical situation (since the 50 gralats allows people to shoot more).

However, I don't find the absence of access/ allowance/ ability as a necessary criterion of tax. For instance, paying a property levy on real estate allows you to purchase property (otherwise it would be illegal); I doubt you would deny this as not a 'property tax'.

I define tax as a form of levy imposed onto x thing- Hence buying shovels for 50 gralats (to dig) is not a form of tax since the purchase is intrinsic/ pure; there is no subject which is being levied upon. But in the case of my hypothetical situation it is a tax since 50 gralats is being levied onto the activity (thing) of shooting.

As I reiterate (in response to your proposal), purchasing a permit/ purchasing goods with melees-sellables is not a form of tax per se, but the fact a permit (a cost) is be levied onto the thing/ activity of shooting is. The fact that this permit is a form of tax is more evident since prior shooting to an amount of specific limit, one does not need to pay anything (as in trade for more permits), but once this limit is surpassed a cost is imposed onto them.