READ- Weapon Rebalancing

Many Players Are Complaining Because Of The Rebalancing(Mostly Bar Users),Maybe You Should Try explaining it To Them Ingame,Because Most Players Don't Visit The Forums,Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Psycho Adelphos

If you bothered to try and make actual suggestions you wouldn't be feeling this way. This is the problem, its only YOUR way or nothing. Maybe you can take this time to reflect upon yourself and learn to communicate properly, as well as learn the skills of negotiation.

If you dont want to do these things then you wont be missed, a crybaby is nothing more than a child.

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Am I talking to you? no so shut your mouth.

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Originally Posted by Meph

@Bitzsam
Yeah - I've always thought a gun's Reload Sleep should equal its Reload Freeze.
Once the user experiences the freeze of the reload, they should be able to shoot -- I've never really been on board with making them wait longer to fire the gun.

Different strokes, I suppose =D

Whichever way you cut it, I will say that basing is significantly more enjoyable post-nerf.

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But don't you think that after a huge nerf (like 10 guns) we should be compensated due to us spending are hard earned money (Real or gralats) on these guns.
It was a huge nerf to us (Especially when your whole hotkey items were nerfed), their has been gangs named after him due to the PEOPLE hating the nerf.

@BiTzSam
Here's a solution: Up the bars price to 250K or give us something in return for what you have done to our beloved guns.

The only gun that needed a nerf was BAR. Bitzsam you need to fix this man, all these players prove a point and you ain't even listening to them.

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Originally Posted by Psycho Adelphos

Money does not equate to skill. Just because you spent your money, hard earned or not does not make YOU any more entitled than anyone else. You are all so concerned about yourselves that these complaints are really maskings of your own disatisifcation. If this did not effect you, you wouldnt be so up in arms. Nowhere in this game did it say that buying an expensive weapon automatically means you can crap on anyone else or you deserve a leg up above someone else.

Maybe instead of crying you should actually think of ways to improve your situation and make REASONABLE, LOGICAL, and VALID suggestions, rather than complain about something he wont go back on. You can only control so much in your life, yet rather than try to improve the situation you act like spoiled children who got no sweets after dinner. Please remember that you arent the only one that is being effected by this and therefore this isnt all about YOU.

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If you bothered to try and make actual suggestions you wouldn't be feeling this way. This is the problem, its only YOUR way or nothing. Maybe you can take this time to reflect upon yourself and learn to communicate properly, as well as learn the skills of negotiation.

If you dont want to do these things then you wont be missed, a crybaby is nothing more than a child.

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What are you even going on about anymore, you basically made this speech already and we've told you that regardless of how you buy a gun that it won't make you a better or worse player. We're entitled to say what we feel just like you are, so don't act you're better than us just because you agree with these changes, you need to get out of here with that crap. If you have anything to say that isn't calling the opposing side stupid, lazy, or skill-less then I'd actually like to hear it.

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Wouldn't really consider the BAR to only be valued at 10k higher than the sawed AK when its only real disadvantage is in the 0.03 less freeze. Not only that but it would also put the BAR into the same category as the M107 priced at 107k and they are far from being equal competitors. 0.39 firerate is a fairly slow firerate, and 0.09 is considerably higher than the BAR especially when you consider how 'drastically' people see the BARs firerate reduction to be, which was of a decrease of 0.06, 0.03 less than the gap between the BAR and Sawed AK. Pair that with the fact that it has 0 spread makes the Sawed AK a very easy weapon to dodge. The only way a sawed Ak would have a chance is if they got in close which then leaves them open to being out damaged by the BARS higher firerate.

Those stats also aren't taking into account clip size and reload sleep. The BAR has 4 more bullets, and because of the low firerate of the sawed AK, they only have a 0.11 gap to run up to the bar user (who usually runs away from the opponent to reload aswell, resulting in an even greater time distance) and shoot them which in a practical scenario is not enough time unless the BAR user run out of ammo during their shooting.
In terms of reload whilst the sawed AK might initially be faster on the reload freeze, its sleep reload is higher which more or less evens the two guns out in terms of the time period until both guns can begin to shoot again after reloading.

I still stand by the BAR being worth 200k, it is just seen that the bar nerf has devalued the gun because they were used to how strong the BAR was. Remember the BARs INITIAL price set based on its statistics was actually 250k, with the price later being reduced to 200k not because of a stat reduction but to make the price less intimitading to buyers.
The actual fact is the BAR nerf it just recieved is reducing its 250k equivilant stats to 200k as it is currently sold. As the stats were never reduced when the price was, it effectively means that the BAR you had bought and used was worth more than the price you got it for

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As for the Metalstorm, the statistics for that particular gun aren't representative of its performance. For whatever reason 0.16 freeze to 0.15 makes a significant difference the same way the firerate statistic from 0.29-0.3 also makes a significantly higher difference than the 0.01 it should only be. The freeze on the metalstorm when used feels closer to the 0.18-0.19 range giving it extremely low mobility when spam fired.

I'm still yet to see many people using it post nerf, or people that I have seen use it actually do well with it leaving it out of the rebalance for the first week was not an oversight it was intentional

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What is your problem??? You are the most biased gun admin I've ever seen, even the super biased gun admin on Zone would be like "Man, that's one biased gun admin". You always ignore everything that isn't bar related even if it goes in depth on why the idea was bad and had strong points. You've been so narrowminded that you've been ignoring people on YOUR side just to justify how right you are about the bar. This isn't what a gun admin is supposed to do, they're not supposed to be the dictator of guns, a good gun admin also should act as the voice for the community. A good gun admin will talk and discuss major plans and adjust them until fair outcome is found, and have an alternative plan. All you did was say you're gonna do this and just did it without caring what anyone else thought. You don't care about the community because regardless of the situation and regardless of who's on either side, you'd only be worried about stroking your own ego about how right you are. If you can't listen to the community then you need to do everyone (including your supporters) a favor and step down because you'll do nothing but bring Era down. I'd be glad to takeover if you don't want to do your job, at least I see listening as a mental skillset rather than a choice.

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Originally Posted by GenoIndeed

What are you even going on about anymore, you basically made this speech already and we've told you that regardless of how you buy a gun that it won't make you a better or worse player. We're entitled to say what we feel just like you are, so don't act you're better than us just because you agree with these changes, you need to get out of here with that crap. If you have anything to say that isn't calling the opposing side stupid, lazy, or skill-less then I'd actually like to hear it.

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What is your problem??? You are the most biased gun admin I've ever seen, even the super biased gun admin on Zone would be like "Man, that's one biased gun admin". You always ignore everything that isn't bar related even if it goes in depth on why the idea was bad and had strong points. You've been so narrowminded that you've been ignoring people on YOUR side just to justify how right you are about the bar. This isn't what a gun admin is supposed to do, they're not supposed to be the dictator of guns, a good gun admin also should act as the voice for the community. A good gun admin will talk and discuss major plans and adjust them until fair outcome is found, and have an alternative plan. All you did was say you're gonna do this and just did it without caring what anyone else thought. You don't care about the community because regardless of the situation and regardless of who's on either side, you'd only be worried about stroking your own ego about how right you are. If you can't listen to the community then you need to do everyone (including your supporters) a favor and step down because you'll do nothing but bring Era down. I'd be glad to takeover if you don't want to do your job, at least I see listening as a mental skillset rather than a choice.

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We've been making valid suggestions and points and he doesn't care, WHERE'S MANAGEMENT when you need it? As someone mentioned before there shouldn't be 1 gun admin, there should be a group where things can be discussed. This is a dictatorship if you think about it, bitzsam does what he wants and nobody can tell him what to do, which is really unfair in anybody's standpoint as almost everything nowadays is a democracy.

This change was supposed to make basing and sparring better? Nope! Instead all the players are using the cheaper guns and the higher guns aren't even valued by anyone anymore. Basing hasn't changed, no new gangs are coming up, that can't change and it never will. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, I'm a player who plays a lot, I know how things function and I gotta say things have took a turn for the worse, clearly something needs to be done as 1 person should not be granted so much power over a community of 20000+ active players

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Originally Posted by GenoIndeed

What are you even going on about anymore, you basically made this speech already and we've told you that regardless of how you buy a gun that it won't make you a better or worse player. We're entitled to say what we feel just like you are, so don't act you're better than us just because you agree with these changes, you need to get out of here with that crap. If you have anything to say that isn't calling the opposing side stupid, lazy, or skill-less then I'd actually like to hear it.

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What is your problem??? You are the most biased gun admin I've ever seen, even the super biased gun admin on Zone would be like "Man, that's one biased gun admin". You always ignore everything that isn't bar related even if it goes in depth on why the idea was bad and had strong points. You've been so narrowminded that you've been ignoring people on YOUR side just to justify how right you are about the bar. This isn't what a gun admin is supposed to do, they're not supposed to be the dictator of guns, a good gun admin also should act as the voice for the community. A good gun admin will talk and discuss major plans and adjust them until fair outcome is found, and have an alternative plan. All you did was say you're gonna do this and just did it without caring what anyone else thought. You don't care about the community because regardless of the situation and regardless of who's on either side, you'd only be worried about stroking your own ego about how right you are. If you can't listen to the community then you need to do everyone (including your supporters) a favor and step down because you'll do nothing but bring Era down. I'd be glad to takeover if you don't want to do your job, at least I see listening as a mental skillset rather than a choice.

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Firstly, nowhere in any of my previous posts have I once ever called anyone idiotic or moronic as well as skill-less for opposing these changes.

Secondly, I have stated several times that I can understand your position on the changes, its sudden unexpected appearance would make anyone reasonably shocked and that is perfectly okay.

Thirdly, what I have suggested is actually making reasonable suggestions that would actually make perfect sense for the situation you are in, and I have simply stated the fact you are whining about reverting the guns back will #1 not only not help your case but #2 only make it less likely that your opinions are heard. The suggestions from people who oppose these nerfs have all been the same and nonsensical. If you wanted to be taken seriously maybe you should opt for a better way rather than crying.

The only thing I have ever said about people who oppose the changes is that the complaining and crying has gotten old, so think of a different way to help your situation. If you look at earlier posts you can see that making compromises DOES WORK as bitz was very nice to consider my suggestions and then institute them.

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Originally Posted by Psycho Adelphos

Firstly, nowhere in any of my previous posts have I once ever called anyone idiotic or moronic as well as skill-less for opposing these changes.

Secondly, I have stated several times that I can understand your position on the changes, its sudden unexpected appearance would make anyone reasonably shocked and that is perfectly okay.

Thirdly, what I have suggested is actually making reasonable suggestions that would actually make perfect sense for the situation you are in, and I have simply stated the fact you are whining about reverting the guns back will #1 not only not help your case but #2 only make it less likely that your opinions are heard. The suggestions from people who oppose these nerfs have all been the same and nonsensical. If you wanted to be taken seriously maybe you should opt for a better way rather than crying.

The only thing I have ever said about people who oppose the changes is that the complaining and crying has gotten old, so think of a different way to help your situation. If you look at earlier posts you can see that making compromises DOES WORK as bitz was very nice to consider my suggestions and then institute them.

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We don't care what you think all your doing is trying to start a fight.

First we don't want your feedback nor asked for it

Second We are directing it to BiTzSam not you, so stop trying to reply to us when we aren't even talking to you.

Third The only reason you are behind this whole nerf thing is due to the thought of you wanting to be an admin (Won't happen, sorry).

So the next time I post I expect you not replying to me, thanks.
(Yes I know this post wasn't directed to me)

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Originally Posted by N!chola$

We don't care what you think all your doing is trying to start a fight.

First we don't want your feedback nor asked for it

Second We are directing it to BiTzSam not you, so stop trying to reply to us when we aren't even talking to you.

Third The only reason you are behind this whole nerf thing is due to the thought of you wanting to be an admin (Won't happen, sorry).

So the next time I post I expect you not replying to me, thanks.
(Yes I know this post wasn't directed to me)

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Actually I will reply to you and end this childish banter here and now, I have a right to my own thoughts as you do, and just like you I also have the right to criticize your opinion and view because thats how opinion based discussions work right? The fact you say Im trying to be an admin is rather a sad one, I guarantee you that you are simply venting your frustrations at the fact that other people are making sound reasonable arguments to counter your flawed and narrow viewpoint. Not once have I ever wanted to be an admin I certainly wouldnt want to be one still.

The fact you have the gall and audacity to make it seem like you are the only one being hurt by these changes is not only childish, selfish, but also immature. If you want to sit here and whine about not having your way go ahead, but dont slam me for posting my own thoughts on something I approve of :). I simply approve of equal play which judging by your opinion you feel others arent entitled to. This is how life works and you wont have everything handed to you, so for once try to put yourself in the shoes of someone else and actually try to curb that pretentious privileged attitude of yours.

I am ending this little talk between us here, this isnt the place to start things. So with that I hope you come to a mutual understanding with others just as I am trying to make with you.

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Oh and PS I will continue to preach my opinion on here, just as you will keep doing with yours. So try and stop me.

This thread is on page 53 :o

Going to start from page 37 to see how this "debate" goes. :)

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Originally Posted by Psycho Adelphos

Actually I will reply to you and end this childish banter here and now, I have a right to my own thoughts as you do, and just like you I also have the right to criticize your opinion and view because thats how opinion based discussions work right? The fact you say Im trying to be an admin is rather a sad one, I guarantee you that you are simply venting your frustrations at the fact that other people are making sound reasonable arguments to counter your flawed and narrow viewpoint. Not once have I ever wanted to be an admin I certainly wouldnt want to be one still.

The fact you have the gall and audacity to make it seem like you are the only one being hurt by these changes is not only childish, selfish, but also immature. If you want to sit here and whine about not having your way go ahead, but dont slam me for posting my own thoughts on something I approve of :). I simply approve of equal play which judging by your opinion you feel others arent entitled to. This is how life works and you wont have everything handed to you, so for once try to put yourself in the shoes of someone else and actually try to curb that pretentious privileged attitude of yours.

I am ending this little talk between us here, this isnt the place to start things. So with that I hope you come to a mutual understanding with others just as I am trying to make with you.

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Oh and PS I will continue to preach my opinion on here, just as you will keep doing with yours. So try and stop me.

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Yes, I have the right to speak my opinion so stop trying to change mine, won't work. You are the one being childish by saying "a crybaby is nothing more than a child".

SO please go and reflect on what you just said, I expect more out of you.

Yes i have to say the bar was good already what's the change for? And one Person who runs the Guns Team? What kind of nonsense is that. I never heard such an thing look if the bar gonna change al least let these players get there money back or Change the Gun back to it normal function, In the military we have an Manager for every position within the army going down to Gun Engineers,vehicle Managers, You can't tell me that one person makes the rules in for all things that go on in the Base. If there was uhh that would be hard even us Military workers are to take votes or if we don't think it's right there is usually an time when all Managers or Co-Managers come to have an meeting. There is an way to fix all things, as for Blitzman how would he be the only one to be an Guns Admin? As for the one person cannot once again make an choice for everyone dictator ship is not needed here. Upon are are System down here we Have Congress,Government(s),House of Laws,White House. I see that Blitzman him self is from another country it might be different down here but don't bring that to era please ask the people talk to staff or make surveys we have votes,polls for an reason are president can't just make an law and say that that's that no he has to go though every branch in the System. So please no harm to you think of the things that may or can happen. Your decision dose not just affect you it affect everyone to who players this. (Fort Bragg) -Commander And Chife-

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Originally Posted by Kiwii

Yes i have to say the bar was good already what's the change for? And one Person who runs the Guns Team? What kind of nonsense is that. I never heard such an thing look if the bar gonna change al least let these players get there money back or Change the Gun back to it normal function, In the military we have an Manager for every position within the army going down to Gun Engineers,vehicle Managers, You can't tell me that one person makes the rules in for all things that go on in the Base. If there was uhh that would be hard even us Military workers are to take votes or if we don't think it's right there is usually an time when all Managers or Co-Managers come to have an meeting. There is an way to fix all things, as for Blitzman how would he be the only one to be an Guns Admin? As for the one person cannot once again make an choice for everyone dictator ship is not needed here. Upon are are System down here we Have Congress,Government(s),House of Laws,White House. I see that Blitzman him self is from another country it might be different down here but don't bring that to era please ask the people talk to staff or make surveys we have votes,polls for an reason are president can't just make an law and say that that's that no he has to go though every branch in the System. So please no harm to you think of the things that may or can happen. Your decision dose not just affect you it affect everyone to who players this. (Fort Bragg) -Commander And Chife-

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A few of us have made threads suggesting there be multiple gun admins but they keep getting closed. The general consensus is what was done was out of line so hopefully someone steps up and fixes things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hello Bitzsam, despite all of the negativity youve recieved for this idea, I for one am for it. I do have some suggestions however, if you would be so kind as to giving me your thoughts on them and why they would or wouldnt work I would appreciate it.*

My first suggestion would be on the stat changes of the shipka. While I do agree it has a clip that is very high and has very low reload time, I would like to see maybe the reload time in the adjustment stay the same while the clip is increased from 14 to 16. I say this because I personally believe that 16 feels more reasonable and still gives the opportunity to be punishable for the spam. If this is not possible then maybe make the shipka a more interesting threat by allowing damage to be taken whether you are hit by one bullet or both. The damage dealt would of course not stack, but it gives it the gun a more unconventional strength to make up for its lack of clip size. In turn I think this would also make players who use the gun are more likely to try and get hits with the gun rather than needlessly spam it in one spot.

The P2K adjustment seems fine, if you are going to lower the clip-size and raise the firerate and reload time, would it make sense to then ask for a further lowering of the clipsize in return for a slightly faster firerate? Personally I enjoyed the P2ks in their original state but agree it was much too overpowered. However if the gun is going to be overhauled I think a higher fire rate and an even more slightly lower clip would allow the P2k to regain its prowess in the basing and sparring scene. The freeze would of course be fine as you have suggested.*

So far this is what I've come up with, sorry if my typing/writing seems hard to understand, I just woke up so it may not sound as clear and coherent as I think it is.

^ my suggestion to Bitzsam. His reply is down below.


i'll split you 15 clip for the shipka, and 10 | 20 for the p2k in exchange for firerate increase from 0.265 to 0.25

As you can see, if you actually suggest something that is doable and balanced he will consider it. If you look at the gun changes these are now the changes that both guns have.

Well then, this is going nowhere... Someone write the Player Bill of Rights and make BiTzSam sign it or something...

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Originally Posted by Psycho Adelphos

Money does not equate to skill. Just because you spent your money, hard earned or not does not make YOU any more entitled than anyone else. You are all so concerned about yourselves that these complaints are really maskings of your own disatisifcation. If this did not effect you, you wouldnt be so up in arms. Nowhere in this game did it say that buying an expensive weapon automatically means you can crap on anyone else or you deserve a leg up above someone else.

Maybe instead of crying you should actually think of ways to improve your situation and make REASONABLE, LOGICAL, and VALID suggestions, rather than complain about something he wont go back on. You can only control so much in your life, yet rather than try to improve the situation you act like spoiled children who got no sweets after dinner. Please remember that you arent the only one that is being effected by this and therefore this isnt all about YOU.

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If you bothered to try and make actual suggestions you wouldn't be feeling this way. This is the problem, its only YOUR way or nothing. Maybe you can take this time to reflect upon yourself and learn to communicate properly, as well as learn the skills of negotiation.

If you dont want to do these things then you wont be missed, a crybaby is nothing more than a child.

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No one is concerning about themselves, majority of people on here dont want this nerf because they feel its wrong, so do i. Most people have said to Sam that this nerf to most of the guns like Ion, P2k, bar etc arent worth it. Bars firerate for myself feels too slow and i dont like it.

Plus your only saying this cause your someone who doesnt have bar(or any of these nerfed guns) or just supports Sam

Myself feels that bar firerate should be fast as the reload is a disadvantge. Even if its a little fast idm but the firerate atm for that gun itself is not good.

You shouldnt call people here cry babys lmao, they have an opinon that they "Dont want this Nerf"

*No one said buying an expensive guns means you can crap on anyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We can all agree that the BAR did need to be nerfed.
If anyone disagrees then they're simply gaining off the benefits of the stats of the gun that masks their incapability to Pk (I may be wrong).

Remember when gun game was hosted, well for some reason I could not progress any further than B.A.R but let me tell you, it was the easiest 43 kills I have ever picked up.
Bearing in mind I can barely spar and I don't Pk.

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Originally Posted by Kos2o179

No one is concerning about themselves, majority of people on here dont want this nerf because they feel its wrong, so do i. Most people have said to Sam that this nerf to most of the guns like Ion, P2k, bar etc arent worth it. Bars firerate for myself feels too slow and i dont like it.

Plus your only saying this cause your someone who doesnt have bar(or any of these nerfed guns) or just supports Sam

Myself feels that bar firerate should be fast as the reload is a disadvantge. Even if its a little fast idm but the firerate atm for that gun itself is not good.

You shouldnt call people here cry babys lmao, they have an opinon that they "Dont want this Nerf"

*No one said buying an expensive guns means you can crap on anyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I do actually own most of these guns, Bar, P2k, Shipka, and PSG included. The changing of these guns all evened each other out, statistically speaking the Bar is still a much stronger gun to the GM4, however it just feels like its less because of the changes. With these changes, the guns themselves are relatively the same as they were in terms of tier class however the lack of firerate gives you more of an incentive to not just sit and spam, you actually need to engage thoughtfully now in order to not be punished.

League of Legends is a game that constantly makes use of buffs and nerfs, and just like this game has an option to buy champions, similarly to how we can spend real money to buy guns. The reasons these buffs and nerfs happen is because of the evolution of which the game goes through. Era's current phase is that of more strategic gameplay and these gun changes represent that. Now if you aren't fully happy with these changes thats fine, what you can do to change that is coming up with some compromises in the statistical sense (Eg: Give Bar less freeze for a longer reload time) and Bitzsam would be happy to look at it.

@Psycho Adelphos

You are really pretentious, you're still calling people whiners and assuming their wrong just because they disagree. You make absolutely no attempt to see things from our points of view. At least Meph, although I didn't agree with him, looked at things from both sides and I can easily tell that he did. You don't give a crap about our opinions and what we have to say, all you want to hear is something in any form of way that supports not resetting the stats no matter how illogical. You don't care about our views, heck, you don't even care about your own views enough to actually pad them put properly, you make the same argument over and over and after massive holes were punched through them you still go on with it. You've had no leg to stand on and is still just spouting ridiculous things out in an effort to sound like you know what you're even talking about. Quit all this attention seeking and leave the debating to people who actually give a care about what they're saying and to those who care about what the other side is saying.

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Originally Posted by GenoIndeed

@Psycho Adelphos

You are really pretentious, you're still calling people whiners and assuming their wrong just because they disagree. You make absolutely no attempt to see things from our points of view. At least Meph, although I didn't agree with him, looked at things from both sides and I can easily tell that he did. You don't give a crap about our opinions and what we have to say, all you want to hear is something in any form of way that supports not resetting the stats no matter how illogical. You don't care about our views, heck, you don't even care about your own views enough to actually pad them put properly, you make the same argument over and over and after massive holes were punched through them you still go on with it. You've had no leg to stand on and is still just spouting ridiculous things out in an effort to sound like you know what you're even talking about. Quit all this attention seeking and leave the debating to people who actually give a care about what they're saying and to those who care about what the other side is saying.

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The irony. Please refer to where you have looked at the change from both sides yourself?

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

Rather than complain I suggest you post suggestions/ what you want to see changed as this is your opportunity to provide feedback. Changes will most likely occur unless something comes up so don't waste your opportunity to have a say on comments regarding refunds/ don't nerf things along those lines as they probably won't be acknowledged.


Here are the changes so far that I would like to see added- you can say if you think a change is too little/ too much providing you give an alternative that isn't just "keep it how it is" and your reason for that alternative.

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Taken from the first page. Currently psycho and pine honey are the ONLY people in the 54 pages to actually make a legitimate suggestion

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

The irony. Please refer to where you have looked at the change from both sides yourself?

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Taken from the first page. Currently psycho and pine honey are the ONLY people in the 54 pages to actually make a legitimate suggestion

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I gave you suggestions go look

@BitzSam

To answer your question, it's in those paragraphs that you constantly ignore because I disagreed with your idea. You're only digging your hole deeper by ignoring them, because I should trust someone who does that, right?

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Originally Posted by GenoIndeed

@Psycho Adelphos

You are really pretentious, you're still calling people whiners and assuming their wrong just because they disagree. You make absolutely no attempt to see things from our points of view. At least Meph, although I didn't agree with him, looked at things from both sides and I can easily tell that he did. You don't give a crap about our opinions and what we have to say, all you want to hear is something in any form of way that supports not resetting the stats no matter how illogical. You don't care about our views, heck, you don't even care about your own views enough to actually pad them put properly, you make the same argument over and over and after massive holes were punched through them you still go on with it. You've had no leg to stand on and is still just spouting ridiculous things out in an effort to sound like you know what you're even talking about. Quit all this attention seeking and leave the debating to people who actually give a care about what they're saying and to those who care about what the other side is saying.

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I personally apologize if what I say comes off as pretentious, however as I said I do understand your concerns, if you know anything about me or what I advocate you would see the threads I make and post are all in relation to helping the community over what staff have done. I advocate fairness, and as stated before your concerns are valid. However, attacking Bitzsam, making riots, and start threads flaming him isnt the right way to go about getting change. Now not everyone who is against the gun changes are like this, BUT a large part of this opposition is, and it is their failure to properly communicate and discuss things that this issue still remains.

I still see my argument as valid, what I have said is the truth, and through this entire post you can then see not one other person made an actual suggestion, other than pinehoney. I am sure there are others who have attempted to communicate suggestions to sam as well, however their use of aggression and sarcasm as well as other hostile actions is the reason why he overlooks these (I am not sam obviously so I cant speak on his behalf, but this is what I at least assume). You can continue to state your dissatisfaction, but if you want to be treated with human decency (not you in particular), then have that same decency towards everyone else. You get what you give.

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

The irony. Please refer to where you have looked at the change from both sides yourself?

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Taken from the first page. Currently psycho and pine honey are the ONLY people in the 54 pages to actually make a legitimate suggestion

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As far as legitimate suggestions go I feel another gun admin is needed. If not another gun admin then a group of admins so there is some type of checks and balances system when changes are made. The fact that one person can alter the entire era "economy" and play style of the community is not legitimate at all. A big issue is who are you to say what's legitimate or not? This is why a group is needed to make these decisions so something drastic like this isn't done again. For the people that actually play era it's obviously a mistake. But Bitzsam is trying to alter people's play style to one that that he feels the game should be played.

Definitions:

checks and bal·anc·es
noun
counterbalancing influences by which an organization or system is regulated, typically those ensuring that political power is not concentrated in the hands of individuals or groups.

dictatorship
[dik-tey-ter-ship, dik-tey-]
noun
a country, government, or the form of government in which absolute power is exercised by a dictator.
absolute, imperious, or overbearing power or control.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho Adelphos

I personally apologize if what I say comes off as pretentious, however as I said I do understand your concerns, if you know anything about me or what I advocate you would see the threads I make and post are all in relation to helping the community over what staff have done. I advocate fairness, and as stated before your concerns are valid. However, attacking Bitzsam, making riots, and start threads flaming him isnt the right way to go about getting change. Now not everyone who is against the gun changes are like this, BUT a large part of this opposition is, and it is their failure to properly communicate and discuss things that this issue still remains.

I still see my argument as valid, what I have said is the truth, and through this entire post you can then see not one other person made an actual suggestion, other than pinehoney. I am sure there are others who have attempted to communicate suggestions to sam as well, however their use of aggression and sarcasm as well as other hostile actions is the reason why he overlooks these (I am not sam obviously so I cant speak on his behalf, but this is what I at least assume). You can continue to state your dissatisfaction, but if you want to be treated with human decency (not you in particular), then have that same decency towards everyone else. You get what you give.

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I agree you do sound pretentious. You keep framing everyone who disagrees with Bitz as aggressive, irrational & don't know how to negotiate. We've done our best to rationalise with Bitz its unfortunate that he shares your frame of mind.
I myself have tried my best to talk with Bitz, it doesn''t help hes ONLY open to gun suggestions & I'm not just talking about BAR I'm talking about the lower tier guns & questioning the eventual outcome of the nerfs.
We have tried seeking a compromise, ié we want some compensation or at least an explantion of why our guns were nerfed, it doesn't help he keeps ignoring them.
We feel the nerfs may have been over done & it was done on the basis of faulty assumptions of the eventual outcome of who it is for & who it affects.
Contrary to what you've said we have made suggestion to Bitz I've seen a lot of people suggest that maybe just a lower ROF nerf or lower damage to the BAR will do, you can see for yourself that Bitz ignored all of them.
I have asked BItz what are my options, he hasn't replied me to this day.
How do I make suggestions to improve the gun if you don't tell me why you nerfed it in the first place like I don't know whats the problem how do I come to a compromise?
So no you don't know how we feel Pyscho, & stop trying to think that you do. You're affected yes but not everyone affected shares your world view, some of us want a better explanation rather than accept things at face value.
And don't say we're hostile to Bitz if you follow this thread from the start most of us have tried to rationalise respectfully with Bitz only he keeps dismissing us & refusing to acknowledged our concerns & point choosing only to paint us as self interested b*stards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donald

I agree you do sound pretentious. You keep framing everyone who disagrees with Bitz as aggressive, irrational & don't know how to negotiate. We've done our best to rationalise with Bitz its unfortunate that he shares your frame of mind.
I myself have tried my best to talk with Bitz, it doesn''t help hes ONLY open to gun suggestions & I'm not just talking about BAR I'm talking about the lower tier guns & questioning the eventual outcome of the nerfs.
We have tried seeking a compromise, ié we want some compensation or at least an explantion of why our guns were nerfed, it doesn't help he keeps ignoring them.
We feel the nerfs may have been over done & it was done on the basis of faulty assumptions of the eventual outcome of who it is for & who it affects.
Contrary to what you've said we have made suggestion to Bitz I've seen a lot of people suggest that maybe just a lower ROF nerf or lower damage to the BAR will do, you can see for yourself that Bitz ignored all of them.
I have asked BItz what are my options, he hasn't replied me to this day.
How do I make suggestions to improve the gun if you don't tell me why you nerfed it in the first place like I don't know whats the problem how do I come to a compromise?
So no you don't know how we feel Pyscho, & stop trying to think that you do. You're affected yes but not everyone affected shares your world view, some of us want a better explanation rather than accept things at face value.
And don't say we're hostile to Bitz if you follow this thread from the start most of us have tried to rationalise respectfully with Bitz only he keeps dismissing us & refusing to acknowledged our concerns & point choosing only to paint us as self interested b*stards.

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What you say in some ways does have merit, I agree with you that not everyone shares my views on the matter, however can you really say that there arent a large number of individuals who have taken matters too far, such as harassing him, calling him names, and making groups demanding he resigns? If you feel dissatisfied with the reasoning that isnt my place to tell you too bad or give you a better explanation, all I honestly can say is that you just have to go based off of the reasonings hes given on the first page.

Now obviously these changes were made under the notion that there would be room for more skill based strategic play and I get that changing the damage or firerate of a gun would upset people. But from what staff have said, as well as Meph, is that the BAR was going to get these changes done anyway, it was just that prior gun admins were afraid to implement it sooner because of exactly this. I think that these other guns were changed as well to compensate the changes of the BAR so that it wouldnt feel underpowered, and maybe it does now feel underpowered, but then again most of the guns changed feel a bit different anyway.


Also I would just like to point out that I am not calling everyone who disagrees with this idea a child, or aggressive, or immature. There are mature individuals on here who disagree with the idea, and those are the ones whom I respect because of the way they offer their opinion politely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho Adelphos

I personally apologize if what I say comes off as pretentious, however as I said I do understand your concerns, if you know anything about me or what I advocate you would see the threads I make and post are all in relation to helping the community over what staff have done. I advocate fairness, and as stated before your concerns are valid. However, attacking Bitzsam, making riots, and start threads flaming him isnt the right way to go about getting change. Now not everyone who is against the gun changes are like this, BUT a large part of this opposition is, and it is their failure to properly communicate and discuss things that this issue still remains.

I still see my argument as valid, what I have said is the truth, and through this entire post you can then see not one other person made an actual suggestion, other than pinehoney. I am sure there are others who have attempted to communicate suggestions to sam as well, however their use of aggression and sarcasm as well as other hostile actions is the reason why he overlooks these (I am not sam obviously so I cant speak on his behalf, but this is what I at least assume). You can continue to state your dissatisfaction, but if you want to be treated with human decency (not you in particular), then have that same decency towards everyone else. You get what you give.

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One thing I do want to get straight is that I don't want to make any enemies here and I don't want our debate to escalate to that. Personally, I still don't agree with what you've said regarding the debate but I don't see you as a bad person tho, we can be cool but still disagree on things.

I also do advocate fairness, which is why I'm arguing all this because this isn't a fair situation in any way. For starters, we got no real say in whether the idea should be done or not, it was just said then done. Then when we try to argue against it, we just get ignored or just straight up told we're wrong without any real reason as to why we're wrong, no matter how many facts we throw in. Even when people supported most of the changes but felt it should be reset due to one little thing they're ignored. The only people he said even had a legit suggestion we're people who are in FULL support of him, basically saying we don't know what we're talking about because reasons. Isn't resetting the stats due to a flaw in the logic a legit suggestion? It's not fair to us and it's not even fair to you that support this idea because he will do the exact same to you guys when you disagree with something he did, because this is how he conducts his work. All of this is more than apparent now, it's undeniable that he isn't listening to us. Now, what if something major was changed and you didn't like it, or even got a say in it, and no matter how much you argued, how many facts you can throw out, you were treated like you didn't know what you were talking about and your opinion didn't matter? You or anyone else would not be happy about that. And in most cases, your argument would boil down to "undo it all, start over, take it one step at a time and lets all talk this out", which would be the best way, but your suggestion doesn't matter in this case. With something like that happening to you or anyone else, it will take some enjoyment out of the game, or possibly cause you to quit altogether. No ones winning when things like this happen.

I agree with Genos. I think its a huge disincentive to me & other players knowing the gun we saved so hard for could be changed at anytime without prior notice. Especially when we feel they weren't really a problem or Op in any way. Bitz never said why some of the lower tier guns were nerfed so we don't know for sure whether it was to compensate for bar or not. You know the best arguable gun out there? I'm not gonna save for it because I'm afraid Bitz could decide to nerf it anytime so in end its not as good as I thought why bother?

When BiTzSam said the nerf was gonna happen at the end of may and it happens less then half way through may.
Shows how much he is to his word.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by N!chola$

When BiTzSam said the nerf was gonna happen at the end of may and it happens less then half way through may.
Shows how much he is to his word.

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What difference does it make when it's going to happen. I said it would and it did. There was no point putting it off. Besides the changes aren't finalised yet, the first week testing the changes isn't even over yet so chances are the changes will be finalised by the end of the month anyway

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And yes I saw the people suggesting a change such as 'make bar 8-9 damage and increase firerate' which I had already answered when first asked and didn't feel I had to keep repeating myself

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by GenoIndeed

@BitzSam

To answer your question, it's in those paragraphs that you constantly ignore because I disagreed with your idea. You're only digging your hole deeper by ignoring them, because I should trust someone who does that, right?

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I have read what you have said (once again hypocritical to use that as you yourself haven't taken the time to read what I have said (the first page of the thread for one which I quoted you on in the last message).

Nothing you have said is 'unique' if you want your answer go look at the response I gave to the 5 other people saying the same things. I'm done repeating myself to every individual person who if they cared about this topic would go and look for the answers first instead of demand to be spoon fed and individually catered for.


You aren't even arguing for the sake of the change, at this point it's just an excuse to make an attack on me.
If you really wanted your opinion to be considered you would think at some point (providing you are even reading the responses you have been given) would suggest your own statistical changes and provide your reason why you think it should have that.

Can you people try to actually talk properly rather than bashing and sending negativity towards others? If not it's best to start warning the players who do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joeyaudi1

Can you people try to actually talk properly rather than bashing and sending negativity towards others? If not it's best to start warning the players who do.

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Man don't generalize most people here are just presenting there opinion constructively. For example I think there should me multiple gun admins so everything is seen through multiple view points. There's nothing negative about that.


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If a faster fire rate for the BAR for example is not possible, would it then be acceptable to sacrifice ammo capacity, or adding longer reload times for less freeze? If the original changes were made to punish spam, I personally think being able to be slightly more mobile might give players more incentive to move around. If this on top of the already additional spread would be deemed unfair, then could a poll be made to decide which people would rather have? Since the subject of fire-rate is a closed topic, perhaps it can be better to talk about what else can be changed about the BAR to give it more viability?

I am a bit tired, so I apologize if any of this has been suggested before, or if it isnt very coherent, the thought just crossed my mind is all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

What difference does it make when it's going to happen. I said it would and it did. There was no point putting it off. Besides the changes aren't finalised yet, the first week testing the changes isn't even over yet so chances are the changes will be finalised by the end of the month anyway

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And yes I saw the people suggesting a change such as 'make bar 8-9 damage and increase firerate' which I had already answered when first asked and didn't feel I had to keep repeating myself

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I have read what you have said (once again hypocritical to use that as you yourself haven't taken the time to read what I have said (the first page of the thread for one which I quoted you on in the last message).

Nothing you have said is 'unique' if you want your answer go look at the response I gave to the 5 other people saying the same things. I'm done repeating myself to every individual person who if they cared about this topic would go and look for the answers first instead of demand to be spoon fed and individually catered for.


You aren't even arguing for the sake of the change, at this point it's just an excuse to make an attack on me.
If you really wanted your opinion to be considered you would think at some point (providing you are even reading the responses you have been given) would suggest your own statistical changes and provide your reason why you think it should have that.

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Read what I said on page 49, not gonna repeat myself, you want suggestions then there you go. And I can justify the nerfs I would make if you wish

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

What difference does it make when it's going to happen. I said it would and it did. There was no point putting it off. Besides the changes aren't finalised yet, the first week testing the changes isn't even over yet so chances are the changes will be finalised by the end of the month anyway

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And yes I saw the people suggesting a change such as 'make bar 8-9 damage and increase firerate' which I had already answered when first asked and didn't feel I had to keep repeating myself

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I have read what you have said (once again hypocritical to use that as you yourself haven't taken the time to read what I have said (the first page of the thread for one which I quoted you on in the last message).

Nothing you have said is 'unique' if you want your answer go look at the response I gave to the 5 other people saying the same things. I'm done repeating myself to every individual person who if they cared about this topic would go and look for the answers first instead of demand to be spoon fed and individually catered for.


You aren't even arguing for the sake of the change, at this point it's just an excuse to make an attack on me.
If you really wanted your opinion to be considered you would think at some point (providing you are even reading the responses you have been given) would suggest your own statistical changes and provide your reason why you think it should have that.

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Yeah, because my long posts in response to what you and others are saying clearly show I haven't been reading them. I'm going to criticize your work, the way you do your work, and the mentality behind how you do it. With that said, if you still want to call it "bashing", then oh well, I'm still going to be direct and honest regardless of how you feel about it.

And you've been repeating yourself? If anything, you've only repeated your obvious lack of concern for opposing opinions. And you're saying you want "statistical suggestions" but when they're in the form of "we suggest you change the statistics back", you suddenly don't care because that's not what you want to hear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho Adelphos

If a faster fire rate for the BAR for example is not possible, would it then be acceptable to sacrifice ammo capacity, or adding longer reload times for less freeze? If the original changes were made to punish spam, I personally think being able to be slightly more mobile might give players more incentive to move around. If this on top of the already additional spread would be deemed unfair, then could a poll be made to decide which people would rather have? Since the subject of fire-rate is a closed topic, perhaps it can be better to talk about what else can be changed about the BAR to give it more viability?

I am a bit tired, so I apologize if any of this has been suggested before, or if it isnt very coherent, the thought just crossed my mind is all.

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I would give slightly less freeze in exchange for halfing the spread, potentially even more. It's risky to make a 10 damage gun have too little freeze as then it would become an extremely strong gun a large portion of people would use in spar.

The other option would be to do what I did with minigun where it might be able to be given a higher firerate but the tradeoff is it would have almost no mobility when hold firing. The firerate increase wouldn't be too much higher as the whole point of the nerf was to reduce how dominant/ effective the bar was in just being able to spam a choke point in bases with next to no opportunity to advance on them without being killed before you reach them.

I had considered giving the bar an attachment option that worked similar to the psg prone but then I went against that as it would bring back the spam. Idk I can probably play around with it but as every bar skin would have to be reganied to implement it i'm not going to do it just to trial it out to then scrap

https://lykspersonalblog.files.wordp...-rebalance.pdf

I'll offer some insight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BiTzSam

I would give slightly less freeze in exchange for halfing the spread, potentially even more. It's risky to make a 10 damage gun have too little freeze as then it would become an extremely strong gun a large portion of people would use in spar.

The other option would be to do what I did with minigun where it might be able to be given a higher firerate but the tradeoff is it would have almost no mobility when hold firing. The firerate increase wouldn't be too much higher as the whole point of the nerf was to reduce how dominant/ effective the bar was in just being able to spam a choke point in bases with next to no opportunity to advance on them without being killed before you reach them.

I had considered giving the bar an attachment option that worked similar to the psg prone but then I went against that as it would bring back the spam. Idk I can probably play around with it but as every bar skin would have to be reganied to implement it i'm not going to do it just to trial it out to then scrap

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A large majority of educated players have an issue with you making any decisions when it comes to weapons. Before any more changes are made I think a group of admins perhaps yourself Meph and a few others need to take a look at the era economy as well as the statistics before making changes. Including people who actively play and keep the community's opinions in mind not just certain people who's opinions you deem acceptable.


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they have an issue because of their reluctant to adapt and actually develop the skills. The admins cannot do anything about your reluctance to do anything about your skills if you do not help yourself.

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Originally Posted by lyk12345

they have an issue because of their reluctant to adapt and actually develop the skills. The admins cannot do anything about your reluctance to do anything about your skills if you do not help yourself.

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Dude I was ranked one on spar yesterday (146 wins before I got off) I have 13900 spar wins and 5 k losses it's not a whole lot lot but it's descent. It has nothing to do with skill or lack there of. I also mpx spar occasional but find it boring because it's always empty. I have over 30 guns the nerfs have not personally effected me but I can sympathize with other people it's NOT ABOUT ME. Some people are kids who spent lots of time on this game and can only get one gun and it performs subpar. Stop assuming things also you never answered my question what's your in game name?




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Well I don't care if your are doing this for yourself or for others. But I do see that youre attempting to cover up for other's reluctance to adapt and be adept at whichever activity involved.

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